magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 its almost as if Christians portray god as saying... If you're not good I'm sendings you to hell, but I'm going to allow an evil snake/dragon that lives in a fiery underground cavern to temp you, so I can send you to hell. Lol it's not even a question of punishment or reward. The stick and the carrot. If we were created "in his image" why do we have this fatal flaw that he doesn't seem to have? Why couldn't he have designed us simply to make the right decisions as he does? We could still have free will, just with the omnibenevolence to always choose good things. There are already limits to "free will". For example, you can't choose to be 3 feet taller when you stand up. You can't choose to sprout wings and fly to work. You can't choose to be invisible. Couldn't an all powerful god who created us in his image also create us with only the capacity for good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 What Would Mithras Do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 all creatures great and smallare mutations one and allonce were something otherhence all related one another Except plants, plants are evil! Either food or medicine or poison (poison is medicine, just not a good one)They do their own thing, and probably will one day rule the Earth. Again. (They were first.)Us animals are most likely a temporary existence in a grand scheme of time. I mean logic rules here, animals don't exist well without plants.But plants are perfectly ok with no animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelstoker Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 So, Adam nailed Eve and begat Cain and Able. Who did Cain and Abel nail? Well, before Cain killed Abel to so he could have Eve to himself, I guess. Eventually there must have been sisters that got busy with, ??, their brothers/father. Lets not forget, it was done twice because most of Adam and Eve's spawn were flooded out and everyone else spawned after the waters subsided and the Ark was unloaded. Man, one heck of a story to tell the kids on how we evolved from dust to today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 So, Adam nailed Eve and begat Cain and Able. Who did Cain and Abel nail? Well, before Cain killed Abel to so he could have Eve to himself, I guess. Eventually there must have been sisters that got busy with, ??, their brothers/father. Lets not forget, it was done twice because most of Adam and Eve's spawn were flooded out and everyone else spawned after the waters subsided and the Ark was unloaded. Man, one heck of a story to tell the kids on how we evolved from dust to today. Don't forget Lillith...She is destructive, she can fly and she has a penchant for sex. Yet this tale adds a new twist: She is Adam’s first wife, before Eve, who boldly leaves Eden because she is treated as man’s inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 http://www.thebricktestament.com/genesis/index.html#the_garden_of_eden I'll just go ahead and leave this here for the lols... I know I enjoy flipping through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Lol @ Pokey who claims to be a Christian yet supports torture and the death penalty. Wow! Hey man I am no better than anyone else "do not claim to be", and I commit sin and have bad thoughts like everyone else. Christians are just as flawed as the next person, we are all flawed. I do not claim to be anything, what do you claim to be? I choose to believe in a higher power, and not rely on mankind's flawed understanding on how things came to be. We should call this forum "Ohio Atheists". LOL Edited October 16, 2013 by Pokey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) I claim to be an atheist, and at no time will you find me praying to any deities. Be whatever brings you happiness. Who cares if nobody agrees with you, who cares if others see the world differently... what matters is that you're happy with yourself.So long as you aren't harming anyone in the process, WGAS? Edited October 16, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx3vfr Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hey man I am no better than anyone else "do not claim to be", and I commit sin and have bad thoughts like everyone else. Christians are just as flawed as the next person, we are all flawed. I do not claim to be anything, what do you claim to be?I do not claim to be anything I try to be a person who does good onto others, I do not believe there is only one path to inner peace/heaven/reincarnation/enlightenment, I believe there is evil in this world and until everyone just lights up a joint and sings kumbaya around a camp fire evil will continue to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 The other pet peeve of mine is "choose to believe". There are very few situations where I have a sense of agency with regard to belief.I can't "choose" to believe, I can "claim" to believe, and I can "want" to believe, but whether I actually believe something has very little to do with a conscious decision in my mind.It's a rough calculation done in my brain, almost subconsciously, that considers the evidence, and comes to a conclusion with varying degrees of certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 The other pet peeve of mine is "choose to believe". There are very few situations where I have a sense of agency with regard to belief.I can't "choose" to believe, I can "claim" to believe, and I can "want" to believe, but whether I actually believe something has very little to do with a conscious decision in my mind.It's a rough calculation done in my brain, almost subconsciously, that considers the evidence, and comes to a conclusion with varying degrees of certainty. What else is there other than choice when it comes to man? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 This an excellent read Magley, I think you would enjoy it. http://www.amazon.com/Dinosaurs-Lost-World-John-Morris/dp/0890512566 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) What else is there other than choice when it comes to man? Belief is not a choice, just as taste is not a choice. You can choose to eat kale, you cannot choose that kale taste better than chocolate ice cream. You taste it, and your brain determines what "tastes" good based on the information your taste buds send via electrical signals... Some people don't like kale, some people don't like ice cream, but it's not their choice to like it or not like it. Just as my skepticism is not a choice. I embrace my skepticism, and I'm proud of it, but it's not something i chose. Edited October 16, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 This an excellent read Magley, I think you would enjoy it. http://www.amazon.com/Dinosaurs-Lost-World-John-Morris/dp/0890512566 I'm planning a ride to the creation museum in kentucky... I want to see the T-rex with a saddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Belief is not a choice, just as taste is not a choice. You can choose to eat kale, you cannot choose that kale taste better than chocolate ice cream. You taste it, and your brain determines what "tastes" good based on the information your taste buds send via electrical signals... Some people don't like kale, some people don't like ice cream, but it's not their choice to like it or not like it. Just as my skepticism is not a choice. I embrace my skepticism, and I'm proud of it, but it's not something i chose. Well, devil's advocate for a moment... Ever heard of the term "acquired taste"? I can't imagine many folks trying whiskey for the first time thought "Wow, this is nectar!" I agree that you either believe something or you don't. People have access to different bits of information, have different chemical and psychological standards for belief. When the combination of available information fits the person's own evidentiary standard for "belief" then they believe. You cannot choose to believe something that you don't. It is not a conscious decision. It's a gut thing. I know what I believe, and I feel that everyone is free to believe whatever they believe - as long as they don't try to force me follow their beliefs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Well, devil's advocate for a moment... Ever heard of the term "acquired taste"? I can't imagine many folks trying whiskey for the first time thought "Wow, this is nectar!" I agree that you either believe something or you don't. People have access to different bits of information, have different chemical and psychological standards for belief. When the combination of available information fits the person's own evidentiary standard for "belief" then they believe. You cannot choose to believe something that you don't. It is not a conscious decision. It's a gut thing. I know what I believe, and I feel that everyone is free to believe whatever they believe - as long as they don't try to force me follow their beliefs. Sure, you can acquire a taste for some things... but then with some things it doesn't matter how much you consume, it will always taste bad... Even so, you can't just decide it tastes good when it really tastes bad, but you can decide to keep drinking it regardless. Edited October 16, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I know what I believe, and I feel that everyone is free to believe whatever they believe - as long as they don't try to force me follow their beliefs. Exactly... This is another problem I have with a lot of the religious. They claim that they want religious freedom, but what many of them really want is their religion declared THE religion and forced on everyone. Not the freedom to worship whenever they see fit, but the freedom to force their religion on children, and into public policy. You have the right to teach your child whatever religion you want, or none. When you try to teach your religion as history, or as science in public schools and in government functions, that crosses the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 We should call this forum "Ohio Atheists". LOL we are all atheist... some just take it one god further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 we are all atheist... some just take it one god further. or more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Exactly... This is another problem I have with a lot of the religious. They claim that they want religious freedom, but what many of them really want is their religion declared THE religion and forced on everyone. Not the freedom to worship whenever they see fit, but the freedom to force their religion on children, and into public policy. You have the right to teach your child whatever religion you want, or none. When you try to teach your religion as history, or as science in public schools and in government functions, that crosses the line. Yet it is acceptable to push and pound evolution and the big bang theory in schools and make it the end all theory as well? All belief systems have flaws, because in all actual reality, nobody is still around from the beginning of man "or this planet" to let us all know what really happened. So you have the Bible, the Koran etc.....for the rest of us to believe we are not just here from a big bang and rogue DNA. Right or wrong and whether a person agrees with it or not, this country was very obviously founded on the principles and foundation of Christianity "as flawed as man can make it at times". No belief system is perfect, as no human can be perfect. Many are gonna get their wish, because it is all going the way of the dinosaurs, and then this country will live happily ever after......right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yet it is acceptable to push and pound evolution and the big bang theory in schools and make it the end all theory as well? All belief systems have flaws, because in all actual reality, nobody is still around from the beginning of man "or this planet" to let us all know what really happened. So you have the Bible, the Koran etc.....for the rest of us to believe we are not just here from a big bang and rogue DNA. Right or wrong and whether a person agrees with it or not, this country was very obviously founded on the principles and foundation of Christianity "as flawed as man can make it at times". No belief system is perfect, as no human can be perfect. Many are gonna get their wish, because it is all going the way of the dinosaurs, and then this country will live happily ever after......right? One is SCIENCE, one is MYTHOLOGY.One uses complex, testable, and repeatable scientific observations and mathematical principles, the other uses magical sky fairies and magic words. If you want your religion taught as science, subject it to the scientific method.The problem is there is nothing testable, repeatable, verifiable, or falsifiable when you invoke "magic" as the answer. String theory, the big bang, m theory, are the best solutions we have so far for how our universe came to be. (nothing mentioned in the bible about how the universe came into existence anyway bronze age goat herders couldn't fathom such a grand scale) Evolution is by far the best explanation for the diversity of life on this planet. The discoveries made in the field of genetics supports evolution. The fossil record supports evolution. Testable, verifiable, and scrutinized by a great many scientists trying their damndest to poke real holes in the theory. Darwin himself was reluctant to publish it because he didn't believe it, but couldn't find any flaws in it. Conflating evolution, abiogenesis and the big bang theory is a common mistake made by religious people. They are 3 separate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 my brothersand my sisters has god touched you today? gigity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 The great thing about science is that you don't have to believe in it for it to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Science uses the most current data to attempt to answer unknowns. When science makes a revelation that disagrees with its current belief, it alters that belief to fit the new data. Religion does no such thing. It's always "right", even when it's not. Religion has been debunked time and time again. It has no place in the halls of education. It is best used in the church and ancient texts, where it belongs.Maybe, but it's also kinda fun when the scientific results make the scientists squirm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Maybe, but it's also kinda fun when the scientific results make the scientists squirm. Also interesting when science backs up the bible.Keep in mind that the bible is not, nor does it try to be the answer for everything.Rather it offers only the offer of forgiveness, for free. Past present and future.no more, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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