Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I'd rather on officer take a bullet to the vest than see an innocent shot/killed because of twitchy trigger fingers. I hate to be so bold, but I'd take a dead cop over a dead child, any day of the week. Fuck... that sounds really shitty. I don't mean it to sound that way, but I really do think there is a moral obligation to protect the innocent. This child didn't need to die. He was completely harmless. Operating on the assumption that he was ready to do harm clearly isn't the best course of action. Do you think his vest would protect him against a 7.62mm from an AK47? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 With this situation and so many others...I don't believe an Officer should be able to use deadly force until shots are fired/harm is caused. If the BG is threatening a civillian then does the officer need to wait until the civilian is shot before shooting? If Yes: No point having police then.If No: Giving someone a badge makes their lives worth less than ours. In all honesty, if they rules that and cop has to be shot* before returning fire then I'd be watching for a biblical exodus of people away from LE careers. *I know you said "shot at" but if the BG knows the cops won't shoot until shot at then the BG also knows he has time to aim and make that first shot count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I want to see the dashcam. I want to see proof that the kid turned towards them. His age is irrelevant. A 12yo shot and killed someone just hours before this - I'm sure nobody would question shooting that 12yo to stop him killing his teacher.The fact that the gun is fake is irrelevant. It looks real. The only thing that is relevant is "would a reasonable person believe the person with the gun was about to shoot them". How was he carrying it? Slung over his back? In his hands in a non-threatening manner or both hands in traditional shooting style like he is about to shoot someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Noone is "giving up cop's lives" Jesus tap dancing christ. How many BGs are crack shots and will have a kill shot on the first round fired? Now, how many of those are 13 year olds? Cops are volunteers. They volunteered for a career with a high amount of risk. They need to weigh that and a little situational awareness before raining lead on the general population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) I want to see the dashcam. I want to see proof that the kid turned towards them. Don't most people turn toward you, when you are addressing them? I would like to think cops are trained/aware about this natural tendancy Edited October 27, 2013 by Tigerpaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentcropduster Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 While I believe that cops are far too eager to shoot people these days, you are easily comfortable with "giving away" a cop's life on the chance that a kid had a toy gun or didn't mean anything. A bullet from an AK would easily penetrate a cop's bullet-proof vest. There is no way I would expect anyone to wait until they have been shot at before taking steps to protect themselves. agree 100% - if you wait till you hear the shot - your already dead. It's a shiity situation all around for both parties though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) Don't most people turn toward you, when you are addressing them? I would like to think cops are trained/aware about this natural tendancy Unless we see the dashcam we are not going to know if it was reasonable to consider him a threat. Edited October 27, 2013 by Scruit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Noone is "giving up cop's lives" Jesus tap dancing christ. How many BGs are crack shots and will have a kill shot on the first round fired? Now, how many of those are 13 year olds? Cops are volunteers. They volunteered for a career with a high amount of risk. They need to weigh that and a little situational awareness before raining lead on the general population. Are you assuming they knew his age? Have you ever seen video of police shootings? Or criminals? Once that first shot is fired the next 5 or 6 can come in under a second. I just feel it is ridiculous to require a policeman be shot at before he can respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Here is what happens when an officer doesn't shoot until shot at: Officer killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 It's all going to depend on what the kid did. Unless there is a dashcam we cannot know. We cannot assume it was correct or incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I just feel it is ridiculous to require a policeman be shot at before he can respond. Then innocent people will be shot. Dead men tell no tales. Police are not judge, jury, executioner. They need to take criminals alive. Your video shows that crazy people will go to any lengths. They would have killed someone EVENTUALLY, regardless how that officer responded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 ...the CNN article says they cuffed him after shooting him 7 times... Not sure if that is bad journalism, or some chickenshit officers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baptizo Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I'm not a fan of the mentality of law enforcement in our police state of a nation nor the "us vs. them" attitude the majority of them operate under but requiring them to hold their fire until fired upon is not the solution to these types of tragedies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baptizo Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Whatever. Kid's dead. Doesn't really matter, now. Let's forget it happened, instead of arguing the merits of trigger happy cops gunning down school children. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marca Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Whatever. Kid's dead. Doesn't really matter, now. Let's forget it happened, instead of arguing the merits of trigger happy cops gunning down school children. Not whatever. If nobody changes anything, then it will happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 How about requiring officer be killed before they can shoot? Then the dead officer can come back and haunt the BG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerpaw Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 How about requiring officer be killed before they can shoot? Then the dead officer can come back and haunt the BG. So, on the surface, you are calling this a good shoot? What crimes constitute taking a BGs life? I've seen cops kill over theft and less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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