Thanks Obama

[Tonik]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?hp

[Bakemono]

Never mind the role that the Republicans played in it. 

[magley64]

Thanks Tonik!

[smccrory]

Interesting article and a lot to digest.  It definitely doesn't fit completely (or even partially) into the old saws of conservative or liberal economic pedestals.

[Tpoppa]

How long did Obama blame Bush?  How long does the next president get to blame Obama?

[vf1000ride]

 

[JackFlash]

There is not enough hunger in this country.

The poor have it too easy.  They are well

paid to not work, and to continue to not

work.  They are provided clothing and

shelter.  They are given one or more cell

phones. 

 

Hunger is a good motivator.  It causes

people to be creative.  It gives them an

incentive to achieve, to succeed.  It inspires

them to instill in their children a reason to

be successful and to have a better life. 

 

Plant a person in your basement, give them

a cell phone, meals, electricity, hot and cold

running water, and some spending money.

Then, send them out to get a job.  What's

their incentive?  They have it easy.  Their

needs have been taken care of. 

 

Hunger is a good motivator.  There are not

enough hungry in this country.

 

.

[Tonik]

 

 

 

Very sorry, hit the neg rep button by mistake.  So I searched for old posts from you...found two in a knife thread and gave you pos rep on both of those. One to cancel the accidental neg and one for the pos you deserve for that pic.

[smccrory]

I guess that's why more socialized countries are doing better for their middle class.

[smccrory]

Very sorry, hit the neg rep button by mistake.  So I searched for old posts from you...found two in a knife thread and gave you pos rep on both of those. One to cancel the accidental neg and one for the pos you deserve for that pic.

 

I +1'd.

[Tonik]

I guess that's why more socialized countries are doing better for their middle class.

 

An interesting point. Canada has nationalized healthcare and is doing better.

[smccrory]

An interesting point. Canada has nationalized healthcare and is doing better.

 

Stop that.  Now I have to devil's advocate from the conservative point of view.  Jerk.

[Pokey]

An interesting point. Canada has nationalized healthcare and is doing better.

 

They also tend to mind their own business concerning other countries problems and turmoil, the USA could learn a thing or 2 from that.

[magley64]

There is not enough hunger in this country.

The poor have it too easy.  They are well

paid to not work, and to continue to not

work.  They are provided clothing and

shelter.  They are given one or more cell

phones. 

 

Hunger is a good motivator.  It causes

people to be creative.  It gives them an

incentive to achieve, to succeed.  It inspires

them to instill in their children a reason to

be successful and to have a better life. 

 

Plant a person in your basement, give them

a cell phone, meals, electricity, hot and cold

running water, and some spending money.

Then, send them out to get a job.  What's

their incentive?  They have it easy.  Their

needs have been taken care of. 

 

Hunger is a good motivator.  There are not

enough hungry in this country.

 

.

 

 

so the only reason you work is to eat?

 

interesting.

 

I originally got a job for a bit of freedom. I was well fed, had a roof over my head, but I wanted more.

I wanted freedom, and freedom costs money, so I sold some of my time for money. It enriched the rest of my time.

I then wanted other things, things that I could call my own. (which is why i promised myself I would never be a renter)

I worked and saved for a down payment on a house, spent some on cars and fuel.

Now i have a piece of property to call my own, a very high degree of freedom, and a sense of pride that comes with being a homeowner.

 

It's not hunger that motivated me, ever. I can honestly say I've never gone hungry, so it's never been a motivator for me.

[JackFlash]

so the only reason you work is to eat?

 

interesting.

 

I originally got a job for a bit of freedom. I was well fed, had a roof over my head, but I wanted more.

I wanted freedom, and freedom costs money, so I sold some of my time for money. It enriched the rest of my time.

I then wanted other things, things that I could call my own. (which is why i promised myself I would never be a renter)

I worked and saved for a down payment on a house, spent some on cars and fuel.

Now i have a piece of property to call my own, a very high degree of freedom, and a sense of pride that comes with being a homeowner.

 

It's not hunger that motivated me, ever. I can honestly say I've never gone hungry, so it's never been a motivator for me.

 

>>  so the only reason you work is to eat?

 

No.  But, continue to provide for others in such

a way that they have no actual need to provide

for themselves and they will not only continuously

have their hand extended in expectation of being

provided for, they will teach their offspring to be

successful in doing the same.

 

.

[Tonik]

>> so the only reason you work is to eat?

No. But, continue to provide for others in such

a way that they have no actual need to provide

for themselves and they will not only continuously

have their hand extended in expectation of being

provided for, they will teach their offspring to be

successful in doing the same.

.

And this its the problem we have in the inner cities. The poverty and lack of education now extends over three or four generations. We now have parents raised by people that know nothing else, know nothing else themselves and are raising children that will know nothing else.

I don't know how to fix it.

[JackFlash]

And this its the problem we have in the inner cities. The poverty and lack of education now extends over three or four generations. We now have parents raised by people that know nothing else, know nothing else themselves and are raising children that will know nothing else.

I don't know how to fix it.

 

I would suggest a "Work for food" program.

There are a lot of things that can be done

by people needing a handout.  No work, no

eat, unless you are physically unable to do

anything at all that is useful.

 

.

[Tonik]

I would suggest a "Work for food" program.

There are a lot of things that can be done

by people needing a handout. No work, no

eat, unless you are physically unable to do

anything at all that is useful.

.

I agree with the concept, but a high school drop out given the choice between work for food and what he thinks is fast easy money selling crack is going to sell crack. They have not learned the concept of a fair days work because nobody they have ever known has a clue either. We are having deep seated ingrained habits.

[magley64]

Yeah, that's the problem... Not that the only legitimate jobs they can get pay enough to keep them below the poverty line...

[ReconRat]

I tried eating potatoes for a month when I was unemployed and I'm cheap.

I wasn't hungry, since I really couldn't poop for a month...

[ReconRat]

Yes, it is an interesting article, with what appears to be good data. I'll spend more time reading it to understand it.

But I can't help but wonder if the American dream has become for everyone to be cookie cutter all the same...

 

Won't ever happen, some people work harder than others, and that's the difference.

edit: ok, and some won't work at all...

Edited April 23, 2014 by ReconRat

[bloodninja420]

I think you guys are throwing in the towel a little too quickly...

The only places in the article I am seeing where the US is beat is in the 20th and 30th income percentiles, and only by Canada and Norway. Both Tiny nations population wise, with large chunks of their economy fueled by natural resource extraction.

I think the rear comparison should account for both government transfers (handouts) and purchasing power.

[mattm]

I think you guys are throwing in the towel a little too quickly...

The only places in the article I am seeing where the US is beat is in the 20th and 30th income percentiles, and only by Canada and Norway. Both Tiny nations population wise, with large chunks of their economy fueled by natural resource extraction.

I think the rear comparison should account for both government transfers (handouts) and purchasing power.

Yes! We must establish the value of handouts as that is obviously hampering our economy. Just so I am aware, do we count the tax breaks for healthcare or home ownership ? Do we count the tax breaks for the investment class such as capital gains? What should we count as a handout? Is it only food stamps or should we count the tax reduction for home ownership, capital gains, or even Medicare? Edited April 23, 2014 by mattm

[bloodninja420]

There are as many details to work out as there are government programs, but keep things clean think about it this way:

Over a lifetime, a person is either going to be a net tax payer (putting more $ into the system than they receive in benefit) or net receiver.

I don't know exactly where that break point sits in the US... but I am guessing a person earning the 30th percentile of income over their working career will be a bit net receiver of government transfers.