Notice...Harley's product "is a discretionary item,''

[Benyen Soljax]

Well,Harley's are destroying marriages on a national scale anyways. That's another strike against them, See, when your wife's on the back of your Harley, the engine vibrates so much that she climaxes at least three times, at the minimum. By the time you get back from the bar, all she wants to do is lie down and take a nap. No pee-hole exploration for you...

and im not even married so double

[MadMax33]

Well, you do have that Ninja 250 there, so when you're doing 50mph at 11,000rpm's and can't go any faster because she's on the back, she may decide to take a nap during the ride home. Or get off and give you a push...

[psyco1]

Harleys have their own niche, if they replaced the paint shakers with an inline their sales would tank. Their buyers want what they want and it doesn't matter what you I or anyone else think they should make. They sell more bikes than anyone else in the US.

Eventually they'll have to do something to meet ever more stringent emission regs as they're running the newer ones pretty lean and hot, I think that's what the Vrod was supposed to be. But it turns out that that line is their lowest selling, it's the only one I'd want from them, but I'm not a typical Harley buyer and they want the paint shakers. In fact they canned the Streetrod, the only one with mid controls, so I guess there's no model I'd want. Though I'd take a 1200 Sportster (if it were free) and Cafe it.

The bigger ones like the Glides and Road King are decent, stable as hell touring bikes if that's what you want to do, just don't bother taking them into the twisties.

[VMX12C]

I kinda like the new "Nightster".........but only because is has that old "Military" feel to it. They have it in Olive and Black. I still don't like where the placement of the shifter and rear brake levers are located, but at least the bike "looks" good. Still a Hardley, but a clean nice look with none of that chrome BS to it. It's still too expensive for me to even think about buying one, but if they'd come down to the 6 grand range instead of the 16 grand range, I may consider it.

[Benyen Soljax]

I kinda like the new "Nightster".........but only because is has that old "Military" feel to it. They have it in Olive and Black. I still don't like where the placement of the shifter and rear brake levers are located, but at least the bike "looks" good. Still a Hardley, but a clean nice look with none of that chrome BS to it. It's still too expensive for me to even think about buying one, but if they'd come down to the 6 grand range instead of the 16 grand range, I may consider it.

i rented one of those back in octrober. definitely looks cool. vmax would eat it for lunch though. you gotta put a windscreen on a bike like that or else you can only ride it in 30 minute sprints (arms get tired from hanging on), and once it has a windscreen, it looks like ass.

[Dweezel]

Harleys have their own niche, if they replaced the paint shakers with an inline their sales would tank.

Their sales are already tanking, big time. HD makes more money on T-shirt sales than motorcycles, and has for years. The "trend" is wearing off and their paying for it. The days of waiting on lists for years are long gone, you can go in and buy any HD you like (god only knows why you'd want to though) and trailer it home that same day. Also no one is saying they have to replace the V-twin with an inline 4, hell many imported bikes do great with a V-twin, and you can ride them for more than 30 min before your fillings fall out

Their buyers want what they want and it doesn't matter what you I or anyone else think they should make. They sell more bikes than anyone else in the US.

I have a hard time believing that, not saying it's impossible, there's loads of stupid people out there, but I'm hoping theres more intelligent buyers out there than lemmings. I'm trying to find data but apparently anything related to HD performance, or actual sales data is lost somewhere amongst the cult propaganda here on the web.

Their buyers don't want a motorcycle, if they wanted a motorcycle, they could, and would get a much better, much smoother, better built, higher quality bike for MUCH less money. HD buyers want image. They want to be seen on a HD. They want pipes so loud you know their coming, and you know their coming on a HD.

Think about that, the same people who buy HD drive lexus, BMW, and other luxury cars that are known for their smooth ride, excellent running engines, why would they want a motorcycle thats deafeningly loud, shakes to all hell and back? They arn't buying the bikes to ride, their buying them as show pieces, just to say they have them.

Eventually they'll have to do something to meet ever more stringent emission regs as they're running the newer ones pretty lean and hot, I think that's what the Vrod was supposed to be. But it turns out that that line is their lowest selling, it's the only one I'd want from them, but I'm not a typical Harley buyer and they want the paint shakers. In fact they canned the Streetrod, the only one with mid controls, so I guess there's no model I'd want. Though I'd take a 1200 Sportster (if it were free) and Cafe it.

The bigger ones like the Glides and Road King are decent, stable as hell touring bikes if that's what you want to do, just don't bother taking them into the twisties.

What HD needs to do if it wants to survive on more than just T-shirt sales is abandon their redneck customer base and forget about their "image", the bad asses don't ride HD any more, The real nuts are out on sportbikes clocking 150+ through traffic, sometimes on one wheel. The "image" of what motorcycling was is now a sport bike. Bare minimum, no frills, as much power as you can cram between two wheels, and in a few cases, theirs some psycho piloting the damn thing. HD's image is fat old people with short legs who bought their image at the dealer. their not scary, their not mean, their accountants, bankers, lawyers, and teachers who want to escape their dull lives and be cool for a weekend.

The next generation isn't going to buy HD, and HD needs to change to meet what the up and coming want. I'm not saying they need to drop their cruisers and make soley sport bikes, but they need to start making something that can compete and embrace the sport bike as main stream. HD is stagnant, and has been for decades. They need to move foreward to survive, and they need to do it soon. The people who are buying cruisers to actually RIDE the damn things arn't buying HD's, their buying Goldwings, Vulcans, and other metric cruisers.

I'd love to be riding around on the baddest thing on two wheels, and I'd love for it to be made in the USA, and while I am, it's not.

[shittygsxr]

After speaking to several japaneese business men there is a rather large demand for harley bikes in japan and other asian countries. They said that they are very hard to get and very expensive. It is likely that harley doesnt have dealers there but someone imports them and sells them. I think the are scared that their image would take a hit if people new japaneese business men were riding them

[Chrisoh]

My favorite cruiser isn't made any more. If I was getting a cruiser I would have to buy used and get the Valkyrie. I loved that bike the smooth 6 cylinder motor, and probably great gas mileage.

My hands react more to V-Twins than 4 cylinders and I loved the looks of the Valkyrie as it also didn't have the fell of the front end was 1/4 mile in front of me. I liked the steeper rake feel of that bike. My dad's Tour Deluxe (V4) is ok, but the timing on it has it rumble kind of like a V-twin.

[VMX12C]

There's a Valk for sale on Columbus Craigslist right now. I think with was in the 6 g range. Black. Looked nice.

My boss has a Valk that he wouldn't part with. Bad A$$ Bike.

[fusion]

My favorite cruiser isn't made any more. If I was getting a cruiser I would have to buy used and get the Valkyrie. I loved that bike the smooth 6 cylinder motor, and probably great gas mileage.

My hands react more to V-Twins than 4 cylinders and I loved the looks of the Valkyrie as it also didn't have the fell of the front end was 1/4 mile in front of me. I liked the steeper rake feel of that bike. My dad's Tour Deluxe (V4) is ok, but the timing on it has it rumble kind of like a V-twin.

A guy I work with has a Valkyrie. That bike is a beast. Absolutely love the way it looks, sounds and rides.

[psyco1]

The Valk had the Goldwing GL1500 engine and it got about 40-45, like the Wing. The damn thing is huge.

Anyway, yes they're going to have to change as their demographic gets older, they're doing that in some ways already. They're planning on making a trike, for that aging demographic. They're looking at making a diesel( they're getting about 80mpg). They've got a good engine in the vrod to build another line around, which I think they'll have to do, since that's the most modern, but it line really is a flop compared to the rest of the range.

As far as making more on their merchandise, care to show some numbers, because I don't buy it, they have nearly half the US motorcycle market.

General Merchandise. Worldwide General Merchandise net revenue, which includes MotorClothesTM apparel and collectibles, comprised 5.7%, 4.9% and 5.2% of net revenue in the Motorcycles segment in 2002, 2001 and 2000, respectively.

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/03/28/0001104659-03-005244/Section2.asp

A sizable sum I bet, probably more than any other brand in the US, but not most of their profit by far.

This is a dip in the whole market, other brands are having lower sales too, if people aren't going to shell out 18K for a Road King, they're not going to shell out 18K for a Goldwing either.

This is a few years old, but the numbers haven't changed that much:

Percentage Market Share:

For years ---------------------2002 --- 2001 ---2000 --- 1999 ---- 1998

Harley-Davidson motorcycles 47.5% - 45.0% - 45.6% - 48.8% - 48.1%

Buell motorcycles - 0.7 - 0.7 - 1.2 - 1.4 - 1.4

Total Company - 48.2 - 45.7 - 46.8 - 50.2 - 49.5

Honda --19.8 - 20.5 - 18.5 - 16.4 - 20.3

Suzuki -- 9.6 - 10.8 - 9.3 - 9.4 - 10.0

Kawasaki -- 6.9 - 8.0 - 9.0 - 10.3 - 10.1

Yamaha -- 8.9 - 7.9 - 8.4 - 7.0 - 4.2

Other -- 6.6 - 7.1 - 8.0 - 6.7 - 5.9

Total -- 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 %

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/03/28/0001104659-03-005244/Section2.asp

Harley sells almost half of the motorcycles in the US, Honda has a fifth of what's left and everyone else grabs the scraps.

They can afford to trim a lot of fat before it really causes big problems.

[Benyen Soljax]

The Valk had the Goldwing GL1500 engine and it got about 40-45, like the Wing. The damn thing is huge.

Anyway, yes they're going to have to change as their demographic gets older, they're doing that in some ways already. They're planning on making a trike, for that aging demographic. They're looking at making a diesel( they're getting about 80mpg). They've got a good engine in the vrod to build another line around, which I think they'll have to do, since that's the most modern, but it line really is a flop compared to the rest of the range.

As far as making more on their merchandise, care to show some numbers, because I don't buy it, they have nearly half the US motorcycle market.

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/03/28/0001104659-03-005244/Section2.asp

A sizable sum I bet, probably more than any other brand in the US, but not most of their profit by far.

This a dip in the whole market other brand are having lower sales too, if people aren't going to shell out 18K for a Road King, they're not going to shell out 18K for a Goldwing either.

This is a few years old, but the numbers haven't changed that much:

Percentage Market Share:

For years ---------------------2002 --- 2001 ---2000 --- 1999 ---- 1998

Harley-Davidson motorcycles 47.5% - 45.0% - 45.6% - 48.8% - 48.1%

Buell motorcycles - 0.7 - 0.7 - 1.2 - 1.4 - 1.4

Total Company - 48.2 - 45.7 - 46.8 - 50.2 - 49.5

Honda --19.8 - 20.5 - 18.5 - 16.4 - 20.3

Suzuki -- 9.6 - 10.8 - 9.3 - 9.4 - 10.0

Kawasaki -- 6.9 - 8.0 - 9.0 - 10.3 - 10.1

Yamaha -- 8.9 - 7.9 - 8.4 - 7.0 - 4.2

Other -- 6.6 - 7.1 - 8.0 - 6.7 - 5.9

Total -- 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 %

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/03/28/0001104659-03-005244/Section2.asp

Harley sells almost half of the motorcycles in the US, Honda has a fifth of what's left and everyone else grabs the scraps.

They can afford to trim a lot of fat before it really causes big problems.

good post.

[RC51 John]

The Valk had the Goldwing GL1500 engine and it got about 40-45, like the Wing. The damn thing is huge.

Anyway, yes they're going to have to change as their demographic gets older, they're doing that in some ways already. They're planning on making a trike, for that aging demographic. They're looking at making a diesel( they're getting about 80mpg). They've got a good engine in the vrod to build another line around, which I think they'll have to do, since that's the most modern, but it line really is a flop compared to the rest of the range.

As far as making more on their merchandise, care to show some numbers, because I don't buy it, they have nearly half the US motorcycle market.

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/03/28/0001104659-03-005244/Section2.asp

A sizable sum I bet, probably more than any other brand in the US, but not most of their profit by far.

This is a dip in the whole market, other brands are having lower sales too, if people aren't going to shell out 18K for a Road King, they're not going to shell out 18K for a Goldwing either.

This is a few years old, but the numbers haven't changed that much:

Percentage Market Share:

For years ---------------------2002 --- 2001 ---2000 --- 1999 ---- 1998

Harley-Davidson motorcycles 47.5% - 45.0% - 45.6% - 48.8% - 48.1%

Buell motorcycles - 0.7 - 0.7 - 1.2 - 1.4 - 1.4

Total Company - 48.2 - 45.7 - 46.8 - 50.2 - 49.5

Honda --19.8 - 20.5 - 18.5 - 16.4 - 20.3

Suzuki -- 9.6 - 10.8 - 9.3 - 9.4 - 10.0

Kawasaki -- 6.9 - 8.0 - 9.0 - 10.3 - 10.1

Yamaha -- 8.9 - 7.9 - 8.4 - 7.0 - 4.2

Other -- 6.6 - 7.1 - 8.0 - 6.7 - 5.9

Total -- 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 %

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/03/28/0001104659-03-005244/Section2.asp

Harley sells almost half of the motorcycles in the US, Honda has a fifth of what's left and everyone else grabs the scraps.

They can afford to trim a lot of fat before it really causes big problems.

They also spend a large portion of their profits on lawyers.