M_Quick Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I bought a WPS battery from Iron Pony awhile back. They claim they cant load test these batteries? My 1st one 180 cca went totally dead after like 2 months! They upgraded me to 290 cca and told me it just needed charged? Test light on top of battery had one light out of 3. Well I charged it all night and it never came up above 10 volts. I took it back for a 3rd battery,This one shows full charge of 13.5 volts. But when I put a meter on it & turn key on, volts drop to like 12.4. Then when I hit start button to try and start motor volts drop to 6 volts! New rebuilt starter and solenoid passes continuity test? Is this just a piss poor battery? And is IP full of crap about load testing a lithium battery? I'm going to swap out batteries and see if my original 2008 130 cca will do more than just buzz the solenoid. Thanks for any help and input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm not criticizing your right to buy whatever you want, but why so insistent on using a lithium battery? As far as I know, the only reason to go lith is to drop a few pounds, i.e., like if you're tracking a Gixxer or other featherweight sport bike. Save yourself the money and headaches and just get an regular AGM battery. They work much better when the temps drop below freezing and don't require any special charging needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Quick Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I was talked into the lithium by Iron pony. They said it was much better, and not until I told them the CBR1000 battery was the same size is when they gave me the 290cca battery. Someone on another forum said to use a 24 volt? Will that work w/out any other changes? BTW I put old Honda battery in and it cranks, but sounds like it needs more cca since adding the stroker and cam. I'm going to try and get a full refund from IP tomorrow and then go to somewhere like Interstate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedogg624 Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Lithium batteries need a special charger. I'm surprised IP didn't tell you this. If you put it on a normal battery tender that battery is done and is now a paperweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Quick Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Lithium batteries need a special charger. I'm surprised IP didn't tell you this. If you put it on a normal battery tender that battery is done and is now a paperweight. Funny, well not so funny you mention this but IP told me on more than one occasion to use a battery tender on them. I specifically asked at least 4 people there, to date about this. All the info with the battery says is just "Do not use a de-sulfation (high voltage pulse) type charger. Do not use a charger that does not have an-automatic shut off feature." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf1000ride Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I have had a Shorai battery in my Ducati for going on almost 2 years now. I know it's a different brand than what you purchased but they recommend you never use a battery tender style charger on them long term. It should only be used to bring it to a full charge and disconnected, leaving it hooked up once the battery is fully charged will damage it. I broke down and bought their special charger that plugs into the port on the battery and individually balance charges each cell. I don't doubt that they can't load test a Lithium battery, they have a different discharge output curve than a standard lead acid and the testers will not give an accurate reading. It is also not good for them to drop voltage down to levels below 12-13 volts. Most of them once they hit 10V or lower while not being used are trashed and will never work right again. What is the running voltage of your motorcycles charging system? Even that can hurt the battery. The lithium batteries are very sensitive to a charging system output and should be between 13.6 and 14.4 volts with the bike running. Anything outside of that will shorten the life of the battery. Edited October 16, 2014 by vf1000ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Quick Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Manual says 15.5 charging voltage.So this could be the whole problem, my charging system is frying the battery? And for the record the 1st lithium battery, I never put on a charger. Thx... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf1000ride Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I wouldn't blindly trust what the manual says for charging voltage on the bike. Check the actual voltage with a voltmeter and see what the output is. You could have a problem somewhere in your charging system and that could be whats damaging the batteries and not the battery tender. On my bike I added one of the Clearwater voltage sentries http://clearwaterlights.com/infopg_cvs.html%C2'> so I could watch running battery voltage at all times. Ducati is known to have put substandard charging systems on my model bike. For all the added complexity of the Lithium batteries I don't normally recommend them to people. They are still a new technology and the manufactures don't always have a good process yet to ensure longevity. Lead acid may be heavy and not pretty but it has been around for 100+ years give or take and the manufacturers generally have the process figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Food for thought: Even the hybrids, Toyota Prius, Chevy Volt, etc... use a Lead acid or AGM 12 volt battery along with the Lithium Ion high voltage hybrid battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello dude Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Some stuff...--- Dont use a 24 volt battery! --- A healthy bike charging system should run around 14 volts, the 15.5 is listed as a max number. Got a voltmeter? test it. --- The lithium Iron Phosphate batterys are kinda different animal and a comparison to an AGM is like the apples/oranges thing. A load test wont get it. -- As vf1000ride said, the batterys are sensitive to the bikes charging and the overall condition of bikes charging needs to be good. Otherwise, not good. - Same again no trickle charger. -- These should be fully charged out the gate. -- LiFePO4 batteries dont like the cold for start up. -- Nice thing is disconnected they will keep 99% of the charge for over a year. Just pull it in the house for the winter. No charger. -- Going on 4 years on mine and over time, it has gone from 14v at the end of a ride and then about a month to drop to 13v to the same 14v at an end of a ride to about a week to 13v. So, its a quirky dude. Stay within its performance window and youll be fine. Dont wanna screw with that? Get the AGM and trickle charge in winters. Minehttp://www.motydesign.com/ Edited October 17, 2014 by mello dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Quick Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I took it back to Iron Pony, At first they were like, we will have to send it back to WPS and see what they say. I then showed them this video on my cell phone. And was issued full credit, they offer'd a AGL battery 190 cca for a few more dollars. I thought that sounded high, for a agl battery over $170.00! When the lithium was $168 for 290 cca. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtBR3cchtA&list=UUDU64hzYdjs_IrwfIbgBB4g Edited October 17, 2014 by M_Quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello dude Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) ^^^^ Its toast..... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJX4BQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_p263_d2_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1A087GMMRN72THWNHYV7&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200422&pf_rd_i=507846 Edited October 17, 2014 by mello dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Quick Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I like the price of that battery, and the 200cca might do the trick. But the size is way to big for my box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Z. Heimer Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/modifications-performance-29/lithium-battery-experiment-over-32615/I'm gonna just leave this here as food for thought. Also, Battery Tender(brand) now makes a lithium specific charger. If you decide on a AGM battery and do use a Battery Tender Plus. Go to their site and read what they say about bringing to life a new battery. The example they used took about 48 hours. I posted the answer below.http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2014.pdfDownload this. It is all you need to know about batteries. One thing to remember is the most important thing to do for long life is to properly put it in service.Background: The motorcycle dealers receive batteries from the manufacturer in a dry state. The plates are dried out, and there is no acid in the cell compartments. (Do not confuse this with a dry-cell battery.) The dealer must fill the individual battery cells with acid and then put them on a shop charger to pre-charge prior to selling them to a customer. As the batteries arrive from the manufacturer, the plates are approximately 80% "formed". The initial pre-charge, post-formation charge, or more correctly, formation-finishing charge, must be conducted at a specific power level and for a specific time period. Each manufacturer has its own recommendations, for example one manufacturer recommends that the charger deliver a constant current equal to 10% to 15% of the battery amp-hour capacity and that the charge current be applied to the battery for a period of 5 to 10 hours. Answer 1) Certainly if the dealer has properly pre-charged the battery after filling it with acid, then the answer is ABSOLUTELY YES.Answer 2) If the dealer has not properly pre-charged thenewly filled battery prior to the sale, then the answer is YES, WITH SOME QUALIFICATIONS: Qualification A) The Battery Tender® Plus should be left on the new battery for a minimum of 24 hours on float, in addition to whatever amount of time it takes for the charger to get to the float stage. It is not clear how to correlate the 80% formed plates with a given state of charge once the cells are filled with acid. To be safe, assume that the batteries require a full 100% charge after the cells are filled. For example, a 16 Ah battery will take about 13 hours to get to the absorption voltage (constant 14.4 Volts). It may take another 6 to 8 hours to reach the float voltage (constant 13.2 Volts). This may sound awkward; because what happens is that the battery charge current drops while the absorption voltage is held constant. When the battery current drops to 0.1 amp, or if 6 to hours have elapsed at the absorption voltage, the charger automatically switches its output from 14.4 V to 13.2 V. So it may take the better part of 20 hours to reach the float stage. Add another 24 hours to that and you are at 44 hours. Throw in another 4 hours for good measure and you get a nice round, even 48 hours, or 2 days. Qualification B) Although there are probably several charging methods that will be equally effective, regardless of who manufactures the battery, in the interests of technical consistency, they will not officially sanction any initial charging method other than those published in their technical applications literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mello dude Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Checked out the Super Hawk thread and it turns out the guys charging system was bad. --- If wanna go to the LiFePO4, check out your charging system first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Quick Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Did some searching on AGM batteries, and came to the conclusion I misunderstood the guy's price at Iron Pony. So I called them back and was quoted $80.00 for a YUASA, not $180, So I went and picked it up, since I had store credit there. I also sprung $5.99 for a new battery tender lead. I was told the battery was fully charged and good to go. I checked it with the volt meter, it showed 12.54. I had previously read the above and put it on the charger, and sure enough it was taking a charge for at least a couple hours. As far as the charging system on the quad, last time I checked it while running I had over 14 1/2 volts, can't remember exact # 14.58 maybe. So I ruled out the charging system being an issue. I hate electric issues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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