'08 ZX14 vs. '07 vid

[Fonzie]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1119137831?bctid=1351307211

[kawi kid]

told me the video was unavailable

[Dweezel]

cool. interesting vid, I just think that they're the ugliest things on 2 wheels and I can't get past that. that and the seat looks like it's from the late 80's. I'm sure it's an awesome bike, as is the 'busa, but I just can't get over the looks. IMHO the thing is hideous. kinda like a bastard union of a Ferrari, a snake, and a late 80's motorcycle.

[Disclaimer]

I just think that they're the ugliest things on 2 wheels and I can't get past that. that and the seat looks like it's from the late 80's. I'm sure it's an awesome bike, as is the 'busa, but I just can't get over the looks.

+1, I thought those were the most god-awful ugly bikes. But, I can appreciate the engineering and power that they put down. Like the 'busa it's a love or hate thing.

[Casper]

I hate the styling of them too, but they're awesome bikes. Hopefully the next redesign will look a lot better.

[Moto-Brian]

+1, I thought those were the most god-awful ugly bikes. But, I can appreciate the engineering and power that they put down. Like the 'busa it's a love or hate thing.

Honestly, 1000s like the ZX10, GSXR1000, R1, and CBR1000 have more engineering in them and based on power to weight, they are overall better machines in terms of performance and power delivery...

Bikes like the 14 and Busa are great straight line/drag racers and will shine in that environment. They are really decent handling bikes considering their weight, but honestly, at 165-170 RWHP, they aren't that great considering a ZX10 will show 165 RWHP stock all day long and weigh in a LOT less...

However, when riding the streets, the comfy seats and riding position of the 14 and Busa win out.

I just get a kick out of the guys with these types of bikes thinking they bought the baddest machine out there. Straight line? Sure, a bit. However, baddest machine constitutes a bike that does it all very well. Not just a few points.

Now, there's a lot of guys with tricked out Busas and 14s that will blow you away, but again, considering the time and money involved, a 1000 can be a killer in it's own right...

To each their own, but realize they aren't that bad ass...

[kawi kid]

Honestly, 1000s like the ZX10, GSXR1000, R1, and CBR1000 have more engineering in them and based on power to weight, they are overall better machines in terms of performance and power delivery...

Bikes like the 14 and Busa are great straight line/drag racers and will shine in that environment. They are really decent handling bikes considering their weight, but honestly, at 165-170 RWHP, they aren't that great considering a ZX10 will show 165 RWHP stock all day long and weigh in a LOT less...

However, when riding the streets, the comfy seats and riding position of the 14 and Busa win out.

I just get a kick out of the guys with these types of bikes thinking they bought the baddest machine out there. Straight line? Sure, a bit. However, baddest machine constitutes a bike that does it all very well. Not just a few points.

Now, there's a lot of guys with tricked out Busas and 14s that will blow you away, but again, considering the time and money involved, a 1000 can be a killer in it's own right...

To each their own, but realize they aren't that bad ass...

we have already had this arguement..... you just had to didnt you!!

[Disclaimer]

Why you hating on the flying couches?

I've never been the canyon-carving, twisty guy.... I grew up in a drag race family, and my 'busa will probably always have chicken strips - just knowing my lack of confidence trying to maneuver a streetbike. Streetbikes, while similar in many ways, just don't handle like a dirtbike (stating the obvious here). I know the limits of those machines - but it's a little different testing the limits of a streetbike, so I haven't.

But this is why I want a dedicated track bike... to learn to get more comfortable on the lighter (liter) bikes. I'm not trying to take anything away from the 600s or 1000s, because they too have tons of engineering which can be appreciated (namely in the suspension areas), but just given the fact that when the 'busa was introduced, it was and will always be the only showroom factory bike that was capable of 200mph. It takes some extra engineering emphasis to get a bike that heavy to go that speed - part design and aero is critical. Anyone can throw a huge-ass motor under two wheels and make it go fast, but to strike the balance of power, comfort, reliability, technology, and cost (which is a whole other topic since 90% of my work concerns VA/VE activities) - that's impressive stuff.

The liter bikes are badass, but the 1000+ bikes are badder for my intents and purposes (dragging). It's really an apples/oranges comparision of two purpose-built machines that are marketed at two entirely different segments.

At least for me, the point of the Gen1 busa was that the aftermarket was there and the engine is rather robust for it's stock power output, making it a prime candidate for future power adders (Stage 1 Turbo, for instance), while the GSXR1000 appears to me, to be rung out to the engineering limit of the stock components from the factory. I dont' know much about the ZX10s, but I'll take a stab at it and would same the same thing is comparable to the ZX-14 vs. the ZX-10.

[Fonzie]

......that and the seat looks like it's from the late 80's. I'm sure it's an awesome bike, as is the 'busa, but I just can't get over the looks. IMHO the thing is hideous. kinda like a bastard union of a Ferrari, a snake, and a late 80's motorcycle.

Bear in mind, that vid was euro. The ZX in the states doesn't have the banana seat like that ZZR. And I agree.....If there was one thing I could change about my 'Bird....It's that damn banana seat. Everytime I see a good deal come up on a Corbin Smuggler though, I'm too broke to take advantage of it

As for Lizzard & JRMMiii's comments about these bikes only being good straightliners.......that's not entirely true. JR....It sounds like you drag yours, and the 'Busa is obviously VERY strong at that......but the 'Bird created the class "Sport Tourer" & the 'Busa & ZX14 have followed suit, though I believe they call theirs Grand Tourer & Hyper Tourer respectively.

The 'Bird was the first factory bike to break the 180 mph barrier, and therefore the fastest topender 'til the '99 'Busa came out. The true purpose of these bikes is to be able to throw some soft luggage on, and chew up huge amounts of asphalt comfortably without riding a full blown couch like a GoldWing, so you can still having fun in the twisties when you get there. They're also more than competent "around town/commuter" bikes, and I know many people who take them for track days as well.

I would disagree with your point Lizzard about the liter bikes being a better all around bike. What good are they outside their designated realm of running around town or hitting the track? What's the longest day you've spent in the saddle/most miles you've racked up in a day? What's your odo read?

Last year, SamBusa, some buddies & I rode all the way around Lake Michigan, and actually ended up coming down the Lake Huron side due to weather. I put on 1,200 miles that weekend, and had lots of fun in the twisties as well (I wrote up a ride report if I can find it).

I've got some friends who are about to make the whole IBA Lake Michigan 1,000 next weekend.......in less than 24 hours. Some of these guys are VERY accomplished riders, and though it appears you're a track guy, I'd be willing to bet you'd be surprised how much of a run for your money they'd give you on their 'Birds & 14's in some real world curves. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you if you wanted in on that trip. I also know guys who ride their XX's cross country......many with 75-100,000 miles on the odo's.....and NO chickenstrips.

So while liter bikes are definately sexy as hell, I don't agree they're a better all around bike. As I stated above, I would say that THEY are the ones who only do a few points well............

However, baddest machine constitutes a bike that does it all very well. Not just a few points.

[Dweezel]

I love my 'Busa, it's wonderful in the turns, I've still got 1/4" of chicken strips on her, but I haven't taken it out on any serious twisites yet, just on/off ramps. I've got a friend of mine making shorter dog bones so I can raise the back up 1" and gain some clearance when I lean it over. The bike is rock solid, and is very confident in the turns.

I remember when the XX came out, I was in love with it, still vaguely remember the comercials!

[NinjaNick]

[NinjaNick]

I would disagree with your point Lizzard about the liter bikes being a better all around bike. What good are they outside their designated realm of running around town or hitting the track? What's the longest day you've spent in the saddle/most miles you've racked up in a day? What's your odo read?

Last year, SamBusa, some buddies & I rode all the way around Lake Michigan, and actually ended up coming down the Lake Huron side due to weather. I put on 1,200 miles that weekend, and had lots of fun in the twisties as well (I wrote up a ride report if I can find it).

I've got some friends who are about to make the whole IBA Lake Michigan 1,000 next weekend.......in less than 24 hours. Some of these guys are VERY accomplished riders, and though it appears you're a track guy, I'd be willing to bet you'd be surprised how much of a run for your money they'd give you on their 'Birds & 14's in some real world curves. I'm sure they'd be happy to have you if you wanted in on that trip. I also know guys who ride their XX's cross country......many with 75-100,000 miles on the odo's.....and NO chickenstrips.

So while liter bikes are definately sexy as hell, I don't agree they're a better all around bike. As I stated above, I would say that THEY are the ones who only do a few points well............

Watch out Fonzie, the 2 main shit starters are in this thread. I'd bail out now. I am.

[Disclaimer]

I was looking for the "Keyboard Warrior" thread, but I can't find it.

Beware Fonzie...

[Moto-Brian]

What I said is what is echoed by the others. The bikes are totally different. The comment about engineering is arguable since the trickle down effect starts closer to the 1000s than the 14s and Busas... They get what the liter bikes have had for years...

Things like variable mapping, adjustable velocity stacks, engine management for similar characteristics to traction control, etc. are found in 1000s and even now 600s... What I am saying is that on a pure engineering standpoint, the race bred machines are top shelf due to their duty in life.

Busas and 14s have their place. I think that due to their low end torque and lower RPMs where they hit their power is useful for drag racing, for sure. Their top speed is pretty much a moot point since they are designed to be more aerodynamic and punch a bigger hole in the air.

Again, it isn't HP that is doing that for them Looking at the charts, you have 165-170 RWHP vs. a ZX10's 165 RWHP. The ZX10 is much lighter, but is limited on how it cuts through the air. It isn't designed for straight line as much and needs to do it all in order to be a racer. Aeros are important, but not needed as much and the handling is a key that is needed for it's job...

I'm not going to waste my time with challenges again. Wanna race? Bring it to a track day and let's decide. If you think the street is a better venue, fine. I don't care. Whatever. Challenges get thrown down all the time, but when the time comes to put up or shut up, everyone gets pretty quiet pretty fast...

So, again, like stated before, each bike has a different role. If the Busas and 14s were intended for racing, they'd be out there. They're better off drag racing as they are much heavier and do not wheelie as easily as a bike much lighter with the same power.

However, maybe Satan can chime in, but I'd be willing to bet a ZX10 strapped and with a longer swingarm to get near the ZX14s wheel base would actually do better 1/4 mile times....

[Fonzie]

I'm not going to waste my time with challenges again. Wanna race? Bring it to a track day and let's decide. If you think the street is a better venue, fine. I don't care. Whatever. Challenges get thrown down all the time, but when the time comes to put up or shut up, everyone gets pretty quiet pretty fast...

Is your post directed in response to mine.......'cause it doesn't even seem like you read any of it. You're still focusing on horsepower & racing. That was a very small part of what I wrote.

[SAMBUSA]

What I said is what is echoed by the others. The bikes are totally different. The comment about engineering is arguable since the trickle down effect starts closer to the 1000s than the 14s and Busas... They get what the liter bikes have had for years...

Things like variable mapping, adjustable velocity stacks, engine management for similar characteristics to traction control, etc. are found in 1000s and even now 600s... What I am saying is that on a pure engineering standpoint, the race bred machines are top shelf due to their duty in life.

Busas and 14s have their place. I think that due to their low end torque and lower RPMs where they hit their power is useful for drag racing, for sure. Their top speed is pretty much a moot point since they are designed to be more aerodynamic and punch a bigger hole in the air.

Again, it isn't HP that is doing that for them Looking at the charts, you have 165-170 RWHP vs. a ZX10's 165 RWHP. The ZX10 is much lighter, but is limited on how it cuts through the air. It isn't designed for straight line as much and needs to do it all in order to be a racer. Aeros are important, but not needed as much and the handling is a key that is needed for it's job...

I'm not going to waste my time with challenges again. Wanna race? Bring it to a track day and let's decide. If you think the street is a better venue, fine. I don't care. Whatever. Challenges get thrown down all the time, but when the time comes to put up or shut up, everyone gets pretty quiet pretty fast...

So, again, like stated before, each bike has a different role. If the Busas and 14s were intended for racing, they'd be out there. They're better off drag racing as they are much heavier and do not wheelie as easily as a bike much lighter with the same power.

However, maybe Satan can chime in, but I'd be willing to bet a ZX10 strapped and with a longer swingarm to get near the ZX14s wheel base would actually do better 1/4 mile times....

Wow, how many times have we read responses like these? A thousand. All the haters preaching about how their ride is better than the Busa/ZX14.

And Fonz wasn't challenging you. Just an invitation to an Ironbutt ride with some very experienced riders. On Busa's, 14's and XX's. Some of them(witnessed myself) are no strangers to gettin knees down. So your theory of the bigger bikes not being as good carvin the road is a pile of shit.

[kawi kid]

actually what the arguement here is apples to oranges. Sambusa and fonzie, you are saying your ideal bike is one that performs as well as comfort. OK!

Lizard, you are saying the ideal bike is the one that out performs all others and has all the modern equipment for five years that other bikes are just now getting.

Gentelmen, the ideal bike is all in...........wait for it......... what ever the fuck you want it to be! Its your opinion, its what you are gonna be doing with the bike that makes it "the best bike."

If you want to take a and lay down a thousand miles in one ride sam and fonz, there you go. Not my cup of tea nor is it Lizard's.

I like performance, granted im not against going out and putting miles and miles in one day. Last year me and a few friends put well over 500 miles on our bikes in one day. On that day i was no more sore than my friend with the zx14 that rode beside me all day. Honestly i would have to say he was as little more tired than me wrestling that big thing around just because we like curves, and thats what we strive to find when we set out is a new set we havent seen before.

Now I will craw back under my keyboard and wait for responses as to how im a complete tool and my grammar and spelling is a 2nd grade level But the fact of the matter is that any bike is only as good as what you use it for and everyone uses their bike differently, this is why they make so many different variations of bikes.

[Moto-Brian]

Is your post directed in response to mine.......'cause it doesn't even seem like you read any of it. You're still focusing on horsepower & racing. That was a very small part of what I wrote.

Nah, not towards you at all. I was making sure to say that before street king NinjaNick chimed in...

There are plenty of guys out there who can hang no matter what the bike. I had a guy who rode an ST1100 and could stick right to the back of us through some really twisty stuff...

Definately believe there are those out there who really understand and are masters of their machines...

I was pointing out engineering, HP and the fact that even on the streets of Willow (which is very much like the streets you find on your favorite road), the bigger bikes fall a bit short. HOWEVER, where they fall short, they excell in things like low end torque, comfort, etc...

[Moto-Brian]

Wow, how many times have we read responses like these? A thousand. All the haters preaching about how their ride is better than the Busa/ZX14.

And Fonz wasn't challenging you. Just an invitation to an Ironbutt ride with some very experienced riders. On Busa's, 14's and XX's. Some of them(witnessed myself) are no strangers to gettin knees down. So your theory of the bigger bikes not being as good carvin the road is a pile of shit.

Ok, see my post towards Fonz...

Second, I agree, there are those who can handle and have mastered their bigger bikes. But two equally talented riders and the one on a GSXR1000 is going to out handle the one on a ZX14 or Busa. Point is that it is simply physics. Not saying one is better than another.

Iron Butt? Yup, Busa and 14. Twisties in an aggressive environment (Track or canyon) and the lighter bike with better power to weight ratio and that has better handling is going to win out.

It's no different than that of cars. An Altima coupe in the hands of a seasoned racer isn't going to go as fast as a Honda S2000 in the same hands. Same power, but one is designed for sportier driving...

Nobody is saying the ZX14 or Busas are shit. Not once has it been stated. Just don't puff out your chest and say they are and not expect to get someone with a reality check to point out otherwise.

Had numerous miles put on a XX and a ZX11 back in the days. Loved them to a degree, but overall, they weren't my cup of tea. Took the ZX12s and were actually considering racing one when Corona did the Busa and we almost had a deal with Kaw, but the thing is, it was too hard to make move well enough to be competitive... Even against the pig ZX9R...