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Question for Catholics


Tpoppa

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He spends his time washing the feet of inmates and selling off the unnecessary fleet vehicles of the church to feed the poor. 

And that is great stuff Paul.  I think he also mentioned allowing a refugee family to live in the Vatican indefinitely.

 

He's not concerned with getting more people into the building. 

Disagree.  But I think he is a really nice, compassionate man.

http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/catholic-bishops-signal-potential-shifts-divorce-homosexuality/ 

http://depauliaonline.com/news/2015/09/24/millennials-pope-francis/

Edited by Tpoppa
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The Vatican needs to elevate the study of economics in their ranks..

The spiritual side of things is the churches core mission, sure, but material living standards still matter under any reasonable ethical or religious framework. Is the pope interested in how the average Westerner became literally 100x wealthier than his ancestors in 1800? To the extent the current pope comments on the issue, it seems to be railing against the secret sauce.

As to prioritizing climate change in his public outreach, I'm personally more concerned with the 1+ billion worldwide who have no power to their homes. I think getting those people hooked up is the imperative, not 2 degrees of warming over a century. There is a real moral case for fossil fuels, past and future. Would be nice if the world's most prominent religious figure had the clarity to see that. But hey, my life experience as an underachieving pothead has blessed me with unique insight.

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All he is doing is preaching the teachings of Jesus and leaving out the shit that isn't part of those teachings. 

Let's assume that is true.  Let's say he wants to move away from rules of Catholicism are aren't explicitly mentioned in the teachings of Christ (like the need for a Pope for example)  What does that make him?  A Protestant (drops mic)

 

--------------------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism

Protestantism is a form of Christian faith and practice which originated with the Protestant Reformation, a movement against what its followers considered to be errors in the Roman Catholic Church.

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I am curious, how much harm are the Catholics actually causing all of you? I kind of view them the same as gays, or African Americans or Mexicans.  They don't bother me so I am happy to let them live their lives the way they want to.

 

Same thing with the Jews, they are cool, they can have church on Saturday. Doesn't bother me a bit.

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I am curious, how much harm are the Catholics actually causing all of you? I kind of view them the same as gays, or African Americans or Mexicans.  They don't bother me so I am happy to let them live their lives the way they want to.

 

Same thing with the Jews, they are cool, they can have church on Saturday. Doesn't bother me a bit.

 

I let them live their life their way as well.  

The unfortunate part for me, as a Christian, is that they are CLAIMING to be of the same faith, but as Pauly said, they leave parts of the Bible out.  If the Bible is the book we are to live by, as Christianity believes, you cannot pick and choose.

 

There are several issues that keep coming up to me where there is conflict between the Old and New Testaments that I've been trying to understand, and let me tell you, it ain't easy, or cut and dry!

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If the Bible is the book we are to live by, as Christianity believes, you cannot pick and choose.

 

I absolutely believe this.  

No offense meant, but this is ultimately the reason I am no longer a Christian.  I don't believe it all.  To call myself a Christian would make me a hypocrite.

 

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but that's never stopped me before...

You can't be Christian and also think there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.  I don't care which you are, but you can't be both.  The Bible is quite clear on the subject: http://www.openbible.info/topics/homosexuality

 

Lately, I've seen much energy and mental gymnastics in articles where the author tries to re-interpret these verses to mean something different for those who'd prefer to walk both side of the fence.  It's an act of futility.  For example:

https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php

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Christians judging other Christians. Protestantism, in a nutshell.

 

Meh......just people judging other people regardless of beliefs, it is what we do and have always done and will always continue to do. I could care less what somebody wants to believe in, as long as it is not mentally or physically hurting another. I think over time it is obvious that we all cannot "coexist" very well, mankind has become very good at not being very kind to one another.

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I absolutely believe this.  

No offense meant, but this is ultimately the reason I am no longer a Christian.  I don't believe it all.  To call myself a Christian would make me a hypocrite.

 

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but that's never stopped me before...

You can't be Christian and also think there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.  I don't care which you are, but you can't be both.  The Bible is quite clear on the subject: http://www.openbible.info/topics/homosexuality

 

Lately, I've seen much energy and mental gymnastics in articles where the author tries to re-interpret these verses to mean something different for those who'd prefer to walk both side of the fence.  It's an act of futility.  For example:

https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php

 

Sorry but it is not that cut and dry, if it was we would all "as Christians" believe the same and do everything the same. As for what the Bible is quite clear on, once again it is all in how it is interpreted. Homosexuality is no different in the eyes of God than a lie, sin is sin to him.........man is incapable of not doing sin, but Jesus coming was the game changer. Why do you think there are so many denominations and "spin off beliefs" from the Roman Catholic Church and Judaism? Think about it this way.....if people actually followed the teachings of Christ in the Bible in their daily lives, there would be no need for all the other "man made" bullshit out there we are all subjected to non stop. Man does things for their own selfish reasons and means, this is nothing new nor will it ever stop. And if God is all knowing and you no longer associate yourself as a Christian, then would not God have known you were going to do that? ;)  So you now denounce Christ when you at one time accepted Christ, we may fall from grace but we never fully fall to the ground.

Edited by Pokey
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Sorry but it is not that cut and dry, if it was we would all "as Christians" believe the same and do everything the same. As for what the Bible is quite clear on, once again it is all in how it is interpreted. Homosexuality is no different in the eyes of God than a lie, sin is sin to him.........man is incapable of not doing sin, but Jesus coming was the game changer. Why do you think there are so many denominations and "spin off beliefs" from the Roman Catholic Church and Judaism? Think about it this way.....if people actually followed the teachings of Christ in the Bible in their daily lives, there would be no need for all the other "man made" bullshit out there we are all subjected to non stop. Man does things for their own selfish reasons and means, this is nothing new nor will it ever stop. And if God is all knowing and you no longer associate yourself as a Christian, then would not God have known you were going to do that? ;)  So you now denounce Christ when you at one time accepted Christ, we may fall from grace but we never fully fall to the ground.

I am not exactly following your logic.

 

I would most accurately be described as an Atheist & I can tell you I am quite comfortable in that decision.  But I do find religion(s) and they ways they grew into prevalence to be fascinating.  

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And if I am the voice of reason and tolerance in a thread you folks need to take a step back and reconsider your position.

Don't worry, you aren't :)

LMAO.........................................whenever I see a show about the Holocaust it disturbs me that people would kill other Human Beings because of their religion. Now I would kill somebody for other reasons and then ask the Lord for forgiveness. Edited by r6Brent71
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I absolutely believe this.  

No offense meant, but this is ultimately the reason I am no longer a Christian.  I don't believe it all.  To call myself a Christian would make me a hypocrite.

 

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but that's never stopped me before...

You can't be Christian and also think there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.  I don't care which you are, but you can't be both.  The Bible is quite clear on the subject: http://www.openbible.info/topics/homosexuality

 

Lately, I've seen much energy and mental gymnastics in articles where the author tries to re-interpret these verses to mean something different for those who'd prefer to walk both side of the fence.  It's an act of futility.  For example:

https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php

 

I have a great deal of respect for this.  You "get it" even though you don't agree with it!  

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I like this pope, he reminds me most of Jesus in spirit.

Spending time with criminals, giving away his possessions, working for the poor and marginalized. Focusing on compassion over cannon. I disagree with him about quite a bit but I respect him for walking the walk.

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I couldn't bring myself to care much about the Pope's visit.  Yea, I guess the cheerleading is nice and if people feel like stretching outside of themselves to consider others in sustainable ways, then that's actually pretty cool but you can just as easily use Catholicism or Christianity overall to justify division, condescension, manipulation and illegitimate government, and I've seen beautiful secular moments just as important to those who participated.  The Catholic church is, like all churches to degrees, rife with contradictions, self-serving power games, convenient untruths and a history that leaves them no moral credibility to me and my sense of what's right and what's not.  The Pope can become a false idol just as rapidly as anyone, and the church complicit in wielding power as an explicit or implicit state religion in ways that trample on the freedoms and equality of mankind.  What's worse is then spewing hypocrisy to appear the ally of the underdog.

 

Is the Catholic church changing under this Pope?  It looks like it and I hope so, but they have centuries of rot to clear out and I don't have that long to find tipping points that are more personal and impactful wherever I can find them.  I'd rather give my time and money and faith and hope and openness and leadership humanity to those without all that baggage, and without the need to desperately hope that this decade/century/millennium will be different.

 

I guess to that end, I can appreciate the Pope's apparent humanity and love without having to eat any of the rest of the Church's cake.  It's the same thing I prefer to do with every other notable peacenik.

Edited by smccrory
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LMAO.........................................whenever I see a show about the Holocaust it disturbs me that people would kill other Human Beings because of their religion. Now I would kill somebody for other reasons and then ask the Lord for forgiveness.

Actually, religion had very little to do with Nazi hatred of Jews.  Many in Germany felt the economic troubles prior to WW2 could largely be blamed on Jews in the banking industry.  That was part of it.  But the biggest reason that Hitler and Nazis hated Jews was sheer racism.  Hitler viewed Jews and an inferior race that would pollute the Aryan race.  Hitler's desire to remove Jews from the gene pool is what caused the Holocaust.

 

I get your point though.  People have been killed because of religious differences throughout history.  The crusades for example.    

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The Pope can become a false idol just as rapidly as anyone, and the church complicit in wielding power as an explicit or implicit state religion in ways that trample on the freedoms and equality of mankind.  What's worse is then spewing hypocrisy to appear the ally of the underdog.

 

This is what I have been sensing happening.  

 

Also, that church itself can become a false idol as well.  I have seen it.  

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