Paris...

[Gump]

So do you think Paris was stealing their oil? I am not following your point.

No, something to do with money indirectly, is my point. Can't be all due to religious beliefs. Maybe this terrorist act was an attempt to create pogroms against French Muslims.

[what]

A lot of you seem to forget that Christianity engaged in a lot of what, if done today, would be considered terrorism a few centuries ago. They didn't have guns or bombs yet, so the used hundreds of thousands of men with swords. The result was the same. Millions of people killed by a militant religion.

 

They were assholes too. All religion is is a way to govern people with the added convenience of having no borders. Think of religions like you think of countries.

[Tpoppa]

A lot of you seem to forget that Christianity engaged in a lot of what, if done today, would be considered terrorism a few centuries ago. They didn't have guns or bombs yet, so the used hundreds of thousands of men with swords. The result was the same. Millions of people killed by a militant religion.

 

Certainly many wars have been fought in the name of religion, but there is a MAJOR difference in what ISIS is doing.  

 

Warring armies target each other.  Terrorists target anyone.  The French people that died weren't combatants.

[Gixxus Christ!]

Certainly many wars have been fought in the name of religion, but there is a MAJOR difference in what ISIS is doing.

Warring armies target each other. Terrorists target anyone. The French people that died weren't combatants.

The crusades exterminated entire states with no mercy.

[whaler]

No, I'm naively saying, they, radical Islamists, get pissed when they feel they've been wronged. A.K.A., someone stealing their oil. Or maybe their just wacko but I doubt it.

This has nothing to do with oil

[whaler]

The crusades exterminated entire states with no mercy.

You do understand the crusades was the first pushback of radical Islam? The Christian response was in defense of Islam raping and pillaging into Europe.

[Tpoppa]

The crusades exterminated entire states with no mercy.

The crusades are full of stories of battles and massacres.  It was a known conflict with known enemies.  In many cases those who were killed were first offered a chance to convert.

 

I am no defender of Catholicism (or any religion), but what ISIS is doing is different. 

[Gixxus Christ!]

The crusades are full of stories of battles and massacres. It was a known conflict with known enemies. In many cases those who were killed were first offered a chance to convert.

I am no defender of Catholicism (or any religion), but what ISIS is doing is different.

Without going too far down the rabbit hole, offering a chance to convert does not justify murder in the name of a chosen god.

Religion as a whole is a fucking murder factory that stretches back tens of thousands of years. None of them were ever right. All of them have blood on their hands and in America they operate tax free.

[r6Brent71]

Bottom line is we will never win the war on terrorism as long as we have to be so politically correct. They have no problem making us a target as white people but we can't make them a target for what they are. We have to follow some sort of moral standards and they don't.

Edited November 14, 2015 by r6Brent71

[Casper]

Terrorists are pussies. Plain and simple. They sneak attack and sucker punch. Got a problem with me, my color, my religion, etc? Come talk about it to me in person. I'll gladly have an intelligent conversation with you. Want to kill me? Let's have a fair fight. Suicide bomb my friends, family, allies, etc? Then the gloves are off.

[motocat12]

A lot of you seem to forget that Christianity engaged in a lot of what, if done today, would be considered terrorism a few centuries ago. 

And how did that work out for the non-christians then?

The mongols killed millions while accepting all religions.

[zx3vfr]

Fuck the Middle East, fuck Isis, fuck the Saudi Royal family, fuck the Jordanian Royal family.

Keeping oil prices so low and Obammy's epa keeping fees so high for US oil production it can't compete. I have friends losing their jobs working on the Ohio pipeline because if the camel fuckers keep selling oil this cheap, there's no money to be made to produce it here. At least not enough to justify creating more jobs.

[Tonik]

So...is it a mere coincidence that most terrorist groups are full of radical Arabs?

 

 

Why don't you hear about many attacks by radical Mexicans, or radical Blacks, or radical Italians?

 

 

FTFY.

[Strictly Street]

The "Politically Correct" version of the "Crusades"  is a bit one sided.

It was not an attack on the Muslims, It was a defense of peoples homeland.

Here is a historical piece on them.

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/the-real-history-of-the-crusades

 

From the article:

 

Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity—and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion—has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

 

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed’s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

 

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

 

I will now sit back and just watch this thread, ought to be interesting....

[ReconRat]

Crusades are indeed PC misunderstood. Prior to the crusades, attacks on Europe from the Middle East were common. Many were nothing more than pirate raids on small cities along the coast for looting and profit. Several major battles did occur, including two Muslim invasions of France from the territory of Spain. Both failed. And these battles are, in part, responsible for the advancement of European countries into the modern world. Europe was primarily feudal states before.

 

Specifically the current day situation, it's not a religion perse as the cause, nor random terrorists. It's a modern day calipe which desires and needs both power and money to exist. Think of a calipe as a tribe. Various factions and groups and territories all under one rule of law and taxation. Using the power of terror to maintain and influence.

 

For so many to embrace this change and ideology, shows the dispare and lack of personal advancement of the individuals. They fight not for their religious cause, but because they have nothing to lose. Yes, the countries of the Middle East where the fighters come from are to blame for creating the environment that generates these individuals. They will shift the blame to 1st world countries, but the persistant attitudes of resisting the changes of the modern world has left them in a previous century. And they have chosen a traditional solution to their problems. A caliphe and warfare.

 

There are simularities to the crusades and the conditions and attacks that led up to those conflicts. But as it was then, it took hundreds of years to develop into mass conflict. There really wasn't a final resolution to the crusades, and in some ways this is only a continuation of prior combat. What we see now, will most likely continue for a very long time.

 

edit: I understate the degree of major conflicts in Eastern Europe. Read the history of the Ottoman Empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe

Edited November 14, 2015 by ReconRat

[Tpoppa]

FTFY.

Possibly.

Let me ask you this...do they call themselves ASIS or ISIS?

[Tonik]

Possibly.

Let me ask you this...do they call themselves ASIS or ISIS?

They have been called many things during the course if history. Nazi's or Romans or Catholics or Ottamans...for example but they are all the same. Religion is just a tool for the head asshat. For the Nazi's it was racial hate.

Stop being.so simplistic in your analysis, I expect better from you.

[Tpoppa]

They have been called many things during the course if history. Nazi's or Romans or Catholics or Ottamans...for example but they are all the same. Religion is just a tool for the head asshat. For the Nazi's it was racial hate.

Stop being.so simplistic in your analysis, I expect better from you.

 

You're making a distinction that really doesn't make much a of practical difference.  In the Middle east the line between race and religion is not so clear.  Consider this:

 

Murder & suicide are sins under most (if not all) religions, including Islam.  But under Islam killing of the enemies of Allah is not a sin.  A suicide bombing is not a sin if it can be claimed jihad.  These are Islamic ideals, not Arab ideals.  These are a major premise of radical Islamists within ISIS and Al Qeada.

 

It really doesn't make a bit of difference to me if you want to refer to our enemies as radical Arabs or  radical Islamists....until the moderate Islamists we let into our country under our outdated immigration policy turn into radical Islamists and try to kill us.  

[Gixxus Christ!]

Crusades are indeed PC misunderstood. Prior to the crusades, attacks on Europe from the Middle East were common. Many were nothing more than pirate raids on small cities along the coast for looting and profit. Several major battles did occur, including two Muslim invasions of France from the territory of Spain. Both failed. And these battles are, in part, responsible for the advancement of European countries into the modern world. Europe was primarily feudal states before.

Specifically the current day situation, it's not a religion perse as the cause, nor random terrorists. It's a modern day calipe which desires and needs both power and money to exist. Think of a calipe as a tribe. Various factions and groups and territories all under one rule of law and taxation. Using the power of terror to maintain and influence.

For so many to embrace this change and ideology, shows the dispare and lack of personal advancement of the individuals. They fight not for their religious cause, but because they have nothing to lose. Yes, the countries of the Middle East where the fighters come from are to blame for creating the environment that generates these individuals. They will shift the blame to 1st world countries, but the persistant attitudes of resisting the changes of the modern world has left them in a previous century. And they have chosen a traditional solution to their problems. A caliphe and warfare.

There are simularities to the crusades and the conditions and attacks that led up to those conflicts. But as it was then, it took hundreds of years to develop into mass conflict. There really wasn't a final resolution to the crusades, and in some ways this is only a continuation of prior combat. What we see now, will most likely continue for a very long time.

edit: I understate the degree of major conflicts in Eastern Europe. Read the history of the Ottoman Empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe

And what about the inqusitions and the witch hunts? My point was that all religions at one time or another used violence and murder as a means to an end.

[Tonik]

And what about the inqusitions and the witch hunts? My point was that all religions at one time or another used violence and murder as a means to an end.

And there are just as many examples were there was mass violence and murder that had nothing tp do with religion.

If religion is the cause of all of this why are there so many other examples that dont involve religion.

[Wojo72]

Fuckers. Looks like I keep my CCW close while out and about. Not that it would do much against a bomb in a vest.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

[ReconRat]

And what about the inqusitions and the witch hunts? My point was that all religions at one time or another used violence and murder as a means to an end.

Correct. The Spanish Inquisition is one of the worst things that has ever happened in history.

[ReconRat]

To make things worse for ISIS right now, a mass grave of around 80 murdered Yezedi women, has been discovered in Shingal. The United States is considering declaring the event as genocide. Whether the world takes action is unknown.

[Casper]

How can it NOT be considered genocide?

That's what I'm thinking. They're attempting to exterminate anyone who isn't Muslim.

[whaler]

How can it NOT be considered genocide?

This ^^*