How to become a progressive Democrat

[2talltim]

18 minutes ago, Tpoppa said:

There's a lot more to it than that.  Ride through some rural parts of the country, like in WV...it's pretty easy to find generation after generation of poverty that has nothing to do with race or trying to reach back to slavery.  Some people continue the cycle, some don't. 

No one who is alive today has been affected by slavery.  Certainly, some people a born with more opportunity than others but that's the reality of life for everyone.   BTW, I'm one of the people that grew up with less opportunity. 

 

 

I'm a product of this myself. My  grandfather (dad's dad) was an orphen grew up homeless most of his young life, while he was a hard working man later on he made almost nothing. He was a violent and an alcoholic father. My grandmother of 9 kids died at a early age of cancer. So my dad and his siblings were raised literally dirt floor broke.(dad said a shack they lived in for 10 years had no floor) being raised by a widowed alcoholic father that beat them with on inches of thier lives some times. My dad and a few other of his sibling raised up and cleaned them selves off and they  (not society) made a life for themselves. Now a few of my other aunt's and uncles chose not to do this and are stuck in what you call is the cycle Jim. While we grew up on a limited income. My dad worked hard and treated us good, so me and my wife took that one step further and said our kids would have it even better.

On a side note story my wife grew up a carni kid and dumpster dived for her food some nights. Never had a place she could call home for more than a few months at a time. Now she is a college educated professional.

Never claimed to be a victim or ask for help or even expected any.

Edited August 17, 2017 by 2talltim

[what]

32 minutes ago, 2talltim said:

I wouldn't call her a victim of society. I'd call her a domestic victim. Society as a whole didn't put her in that fucked up situation.

The whole thing stems from society and its views towards certain minority groups starting back before the founding of this country. 

 

Freed slaves were often not educated and had no means to support themselves, their families or communities. They congregated in areas which ended up as ghettos because those were the only places "safe" for them because there's strength in numbers. Anywhere you get a large group of uneducated people living together, the living situation is not going to be ideal, especially when said group is surrounded by vast wealth. The allegory of the cave is a great thing to bring up here. There are groups within our society that don't have any idea that what they are seeing on the wall are shadows and what those shadows actually are. The "American Dream" that you, I and everyone else we are speaking with on these forums does not mean anything to these groups because they can't understand it due to the culture they were raised in and are a member of. 

 

Crime/violence/unrest/etc are a symptom of the major underlying problem of non-integration. I'm not placing blame on any specific group here. What we are seeing was set in motion hundreds of years ago. There is a solution, but both sides of the aisle will have to agree that there is nobody to blame, no single entity that's responsible and we need to work together on slowly breaking down social barriers that are currently in place between the different groups of people in this country. When everybody in our society has the same upbringing, has the same or similar values, beliefs and education, then we will see these issues start to disappear. People hating on each other for being racist or lazy or stupid or whatever helps no one. That's the attitude that has led to where we are. Divisiveness. Sadly, this is the platform that both the far left and far right base their policies around and how they sell themselves, "progressive liberals" and "social justice warriors" are probably the biggest offenders right now because they are not trying to fix anything, just use the divisions in society as a way to hold onto power. 

 

Politicians won't solve this problem.

 

 

[ReconRat]

So darn complicated now-a-days. Gone are the 60s, where drop out, tune in, peace and love, and move to a commune were the way to deal with it. Somehow war and hate have become a thing. In your face and no listening to logic or reason. Can only hope all radicals move to communes (with no internet) and we be done with it.

[Tonik]

13 minutes ago, ReconRat said:

So darn complicated now-a-days. Gone are the 60s, where drop out, tune in, peace and love, and move to a commune were the way to deal with it. Somehow war and hate have become a thing. In your face and no listening to logic or reason. Can only hope all radicals move to communes (with no internet) and we be done with it.

The 60's called, they want their summerS of riots back.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Tonik

[Qman]

31 minutes ago, Danimal said:

Things will never improve until people let go of antiquated ideals and beliefs. And that obviously includes beliefs dear to some of you.

It's more about survival of our species and our planet than most realize. For any real future for this world to exist, major shit must change...for everyone.

The ONLY viable future for Earth is a peaceful one. All others lead to destruction.

True that...people bitching about some harmless statues when threats like N Korea are imminient.

[ReconRat]

7 minutes ago, Tonik said:

The 60's called, they want their summer of riots back.

LOL, yeah... I remember several of those. In person at a few. Current generation got no clue. The ultimate one that I remember, and was not there... was the battle of Chicago. Although Watts is right up there on the list. I was in Watts right after that. Seemed pretty calm to me, but people still weren't out on the streets much, and those that did, did not hang around in public for very long. Oddly, part of my Army training right around then, was how to respond and deal with it. That would be rifles, ammo, bayonets, helmets, tear gas and gas masks. And a canteen of water... Hey, it worked quite well, most of the time...

 

[Tonik]

3 hours ago, Qman said:

Yep.  His hands were tied with the illegal amnesty thing.  That deficit spending helped to "tear down that wall", and the trickle down economics paved the way for balanced budget later under Slick willy.  You're welcome!

Based on the above you must agree the current economic climate....dropping unemployment, stock market jump and all that is due to Obama's genius moves.

Right?

[jschaf]

How much lower can unemployment go?  No doubt in my mind, the bubble will burst. Planning accordingly.

[Blitz]

Read Bonhoeffer's "On Stupidity". It applies to all sides. People have abandoned logic in favor of the party ideals fed to them. They no longer think for themselves. And they no longer empathize because they consider anyone that doesn't think like them to be an enemy, or an appeaser.

The Left is intentionally trying to destroy this President. It's disgusting. And the Right shouldn't have elected the moron in the first place.

I have come to the realization recently that there is no fixing this and it's all going to end in violence and pain.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/religiousgrounds.wordpress.com/2016/05/11/bonhoeffer-on-stupidity-entire-quote/amp/

 

[Tpoppa]

2 minutes ago, Blitz said:

 

The Left is intentionally trying to destroy this President. It's disgusting. And the Right shouldn't have elected the moron in the first place.

 

This.  I'll add if the DNC wouldn't have  made a mockery of their own process by gifting the nomination to hilldog, Trump probably wouldn't be the president.

[jschaf]

I haven't abandoned logic. The country has.

[Tonik]

21 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Read Bonhoeffer's "On Stupidity". It applies to all sides. People have abandoned logic in favor of the party ideals fed to them. They no longer think for themselves. And they no longer empathize because they consider anyone that doesn't think like them to be an enemy, or an appeaser.

The Left is intentionally trying to destroy this President. It's disgusting. And the Right shouldn't have elected the moron in the first place.

I have come to the realization recently that there is no fixing this and it's all going to end in violence and pain.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/religiousgrounds.wordpress.com/2016/05/11/bonhoeffer-on-stupidity-entire-quote/amp/

 

I love you man.

[drc32-0]

2 hours ago, Blitz said:

Read Bonhoeffer's "On Stupidity". It applies to all sides. People have abandoned logic in favor of the party ideals fed to them. They no longer think for themselves. And they no longer empathize because they consider anyone that doesn't think like them to be an enemy, or an appeaser.

The Left is intentionally trying to destroy this President. It's disgusting. And the Right shouldn't have elected the moron in the first place.

I have come to the realization recently that there is no fixing this and it's all going to end in violence and pain.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/religiousgrounds.wordpress.com/2016/05/11/bonhoeffer-on-stupidity-entire-quote/amp/

 

Rarely do I find anything of value on OR,but that link is definitely worthwhile reading.Thank you.

[Blitz]

26 minutes ago, drc32-0 said:

Rarely do I find anything of value on OR,but that link is definitely worthwhile reading.Thank you.

The value on OR compared to social media is like the difference between an encyclopedia and a happy meal box...  Facebook being the fast food reading...

I think that definitely has something to do with the lack of anononymity here. We all know each other, and so we moderate our opinions like reasonable adults should. Social media, and thus our entire culture, has become a mosh pit of half-baked, least common denominator, childish, I-can-type-louder-than-you ideas. And that one very powerful, very polarizing element is taking civilization down a path of destruction.

The world has never seen the the power of this form of communication. It has (maybe past tense 'had' is more appropriate) the potential to be a global force for good and positive change. But social media has devolved into a cesspool of failed ideologies, hate, misinformation, lies, fools, and propaganda. And I don't think anyone knows how to fix it.

Ive come to a point where I no longer attempt to make rational arguments for my Conservative/ Libertarian beliefs. It's pointless. Nobody cares and nobody listens, and I'm not changing any minds. So now, my entire purpose for my freedom of speech is to ask people from all sides to stop allowing themselves to be polarized and defend their personal bias, and to try to empathize with those you disagree with, and spend your time trying to find common ground.

If we continue to stand and fight from our bias we will never find a solution to the division in our society. I'll never concede that more government is an answer to our problems. That's a principle I believe to my core. But I don't have to argue that point every time you ask me to concede that gays, blacks, and minorities deserve equal rights and haven't had them. Just like you can concede that maybe it's a good idea to at least monitor who comes in and out of the country. I can concede that not all Muslims are terrorists and in fact most aren't. Just like you can call Black Lives Matter members chanting "Murder Cops" in the streets just as repugnant as Nazis.

But nobody right now will concede a damn thing! Everyone thinks they're so damn correct. Independent intellectual analysis is far more difficult than reiterating what BuzzFeed and CNN and Breitbart told you. And until everyone can concede SOMETHING we are going to kill each other. And it makes me terribly sad, because America as an idea, as an ideal, as a philosophy is better than this.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Blitz

[motocat12]

On 8/16/2017 at 9:24 PM, Tonik said:

My concern is they are on a roll. Washington and Jefferson monuments are next. They won't stop.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/after_taking_down_confederate_statues_lets_remove_the_tombstones_of_confederate_war_dead.html

13 minutes ago, Blitz said:

 Nobody cares and nobody listens, and I'm not changing any minds. 

I feel the same way about political bumperstickers

[Qman]

14 hours ago, Tonik said:

Based on the above you must agree the current economic climate....dropping unemployment, stock market jump and all that is due to Obama's genius moves.

Right?

Wrong.  The market was being extremely cautious until the election.  

[Qman]

"I'll never concede that more government is an answer to our problems."

This!

[Qman]

MODs....should rename the thread... "How to pit OR member against OR member"!

[Tonik]

44 minutes ago, Qman said:

Wrong.  The market was being extremely cautious until the election.  

Wrong. That was fear of Hillary and has nothing to do with Obama saving us from that disaster Bush that you voted for.

[Tpoppa]

18 hours ago, 2talltim said:

Never claimed to be a victim or ask for help or even expected any.

 

17 hours ago, what said:

The whole thing stems from society and its views...

Ahhh, the classic debate of individual responsibility vs societal responsibility.  This is the defining difference between the left and the right.

Many people are born into poverty or with less opportunity.  Some continue that cycle, some rise above it.

[Qman]

31 minutes ago, Tonik said:

Wrong. That was fear of Hillary and has nothing to do with Obama saving us from that disaster Bush that you voted for.

The only thing OBama ever saved was Guantanamo bay terrorists.

[what]

44 minutes ago, Tpoppa said:

 

Ahhh, the classic debate of individual responsibility vs societal responsibility.  This is the defining difference between the left and the right.

Many people are born into poverty or with less opportunity.  Some continue that cycle, some rise above it.

It's not a question of one or the other, it's a combination of both. Society should make clear opportunities and individuals within society should have the motivation to make their own situation better. Right now for a lot of people, they see robbery, drugs and violence as the way to a better life because that's what their parents, neighbors, friends and extended family have all done in an effort to better their own lives. There are outliers that will realize there's a better way but they are not the majority. 

[Qman]

9 minutes ago, what said:

"Society should make clear opportunities"

Curious how you expect this to occur?  Through Government and tax dollars?

[Tpoppa]

14 minutes ago, what said:

Society should make clear opportunities and individuals within society should have the motivation to make their own situation better. 

For many people, motivation to do better disappears when society provides them with "just enough" to get by.  I've witnessed it...many times.

I think society should provide a safety net (with an expiration date) for those that would otherwise fall through the cracks.  Beyond that, we are all responsible for finding our own opportunities.  

[what]

I should clarify since that sentence can be misread... Society should make clear that opportunities are available, not society should make opportunities for people. 

 

And society does not equal government. Society is the population of the USA. The government can go fuck itself. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by what