Guest pyrowolf Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hey there, new to the board, just wanted to set out my feelers on an issue I am having with my Impala. The fuel pump had broke, again, and so my pop and I replaced it, and gave it an oil change. (Diaphram was busted, smelled gas in the eng. big time) Anyway, we pulled the plugs and cleaned them up and what have you, and put back in. Now it still won't start. I know that it's pumping fuel, can see it squrit. The only think that I can think of is to recheck the gap on the plugs. I would like some other ideas. All the eng does is turnover. Maybe / Sometimes I get a late fire, but it seems like it just won't fire. graemlins/doh.gif Any tips would be great... Thanks... -Chevy 350 4brl V8, 50,009 miles! Wooties! --Oh yea, and the vid pic posts are AWESOME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex1647545498 Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 Make sure your fire sequence is correct. As in that the plug wires are in the correct sockets. You can also pull a plug and attach the wire back on then hold it then have someone turn the ignition. If it sparks then you have spark. If you don't have spark then it's a different problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hmmm, I get *** feeling that "cleaning" your plugs is the root of this. I am guessing here, but the crystal ball says that you either cleaned them with some solvent or liquid, or worse yet a wire brush. Here's why wire brushes and plugs don't mix. Wire is of course conductive. And when you attempt to clean plugs with it, the center ceramic insulator acts as a grinding wheel. It will actually grind away small bits of the wire and then it becomes embedded in the ceramic insulator, making the insulator a conductor. I have seen it so bad that the plugs would not fire in open air. And it is much harder to get a plug to fire under cylinder pressure than it is in open air. If this is what you did, then the cure is one of two things. Replace the plugs, or sandblast the plugs with a SAND abrasive (people are using all sorts of shit in there snad blasters these days). This is the ONLY way to clean a plug. Solvents, on plugs, do one thing, foul them. Carbon on a plug, is mildly conductive, but add a liquid of any sort to itand it becomes real conductive, again, Ihave seen plugs in open air, that I sprayed down with bake clean or carb cleaner, and the would not fire again, until I blasted them. This is a common mistake, I had to figure this one out on my own, but I now know the way to deal with plugs. While on the subject. A few tips on plugs. Before gapping new plugs and installling them in a motor, especially a forced induction or N2O motor, take a small file and round the ground electrode tip. The sharp tips on a new plug will get hotter than the rest of the electrode, because sharp edges will not disapate heat as well. This will keep preignition down in the motor. Another thing to look at is plug indexing. This is where you sort of point the opening of the plug towards the top center of the combustion chamber, you will of course will need to know there that is. But mark the electrode position on each plug with a marker then put each of them in seeing what lines up when tightened up. The ones that will not align in ANY cylinder will need shimmed. Jegs sells shims pretty cheap and with a bit of trial and error youy will get it. This is goo for a couple HP, asn is the filing of the electrode, not because it will magically make more power, but because if that reduces spark knock (preignition) so you can dial in a degree or two more in the base ignition timing. That's good for a few more ponies as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrowolf Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Originally posted by desperado: Hmmm, I get *** feeling that "cleaning" your plugs is the root of this. I am guessing here, but the crystal ball says that you either cleaned them with some solvent or liquid, or worse yet a wire brush. Here's why wire brushes and plugs don't mix. Wire is of course conductive. And when you attempt to clean plugs with it, the center ceramic insulator acts as a grinding wheel. It will actually grind away small bits of the wire and then it becomes embedded in the ceramic insulator, making the insulator a conductor. I have seen it so bad that the plugs would not fire in open air. And it is much harder to get a plug to fire under cylinder pressure than it is in open air. If this is what you did, then the cure is one of two things. Replace the plugs, or sandblast the plugs with a SAND abrasive (people are using all sorts of shit in there snad blasters these days). This is the ONLY way to clean a plug.This is something that makes me glad I joined this group. While I did not use a wire brush, I used an emery<SP?> board. But the explination is why I am glad that I joined. smile.gif I did NOT use any liquid cleaners on them. While on the subject. A few tips on plugs. Before gapping new plugs and installling them in a motor, especially a forced induction or N2O motor, take a small file and round the ground electrode tip. The sharp tips on a new plug will get hotter than the rest of the electrode, because sharp edges will not disapate heat as well. This will keep preignition down in the motor.Great TIP... Did not know that. But makes perfect since. Another thing to look at is plug indexing. This is where you sort of point the opening of the plug towards the top center of the combustion chamber, you will of course will need to know where that is. But mark the electrode position on each plug with a marker then put each of them in seeing what lines up when tightened up. The ones that will not align in ANY cylinder will need shimmed. Jegs sells shims pretty cheap and with a bit of trial and error you will get it. This is good for a couple HP, as is the filing of the electrode, not because it will magically make more power, but because if that reduces spark knock (preignition) so you can dial in a degree or two more in the base ignition timing. That's good for a few more ponies as well. Awesome, I will try all these, once I get Veritas out of my garage. He left a big mess, just waiting for him to clean up and then I will be putting in the Impala and working on it again. graemlins/thumb.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Did you take the distributor cap off at all? You said it is getting fuel, is it enough? Maybe the fuel pump pin(I imagine it is still a mechanical pump?) isnt in there right?Could be a reason it is not getting enough fuel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 if all you did was unfoul the plugs and it was running before I would make sure you had all the wires on in the right order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrowolf Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Yea, it's a mechanical pump. And the pin seems to be in right, not much more ya can do with it. Other then put it in. Pretty sure it's getting enough fuel. I would think that it would fire even if it wasn't getting enough fuel. Just wouldn't keep firing. Plug wires is a good call... I am going to check that, just to make sure... But I labeled all the wires as I was taking them off. And to be completely honest, here is the full story on the running status of the car. I had been driving it, as a daily driver for a while. Then, as it started to get colder around here. It just wouldn't start. All it would do is turn-over. No firing. So because it had been buring a lot of oil I noticed, I wanted to check the plugs for deposits or build-up. Found that, but also while I was checking the oil, found that the oil stick smelled heavy of gas. graemlins/doh.gif So thus begain the replacement of the fuel pump and pulling the plugs for cleaning. -Again... Muchos GrassyAss for all the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 so it was doing this before you messed with it as well? What kind of choke ya got, is it electric or manual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrowolf Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Manual choke, and yea, it was pretty much doing the same thing before all the work to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Id clean the choke out if you know how, dont just use some shitty spray. Get an electris choke kit, or a new manual choke kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrowolf Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hrm, ok... I can do/try that... Don't know why the choke would keep it from firing though?? Someone explain that to me... I understand the concept of a choke, as in air/fuel, but I didn't think it effected spark?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 it doesnt, but you said you werent sure if it was sparking, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrowolf Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Yea, I am unsure of spark.... :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Pull the #1 plug, put it in the plug wire, then lay the threaded part of the plug onto the exhaust manifold, and have somebody turn it over for a second while you watch for spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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