GM.....

[Brandon]

GM stock deal

 

Well I just saw and read this, its very intersting. My take is if GM goes through with a deal like this, then it will be right back where it ws before in the shitter in terms of products. I hope for GM and this does not happen, they have enough proublems ( being short a billon dollars and all ).

[SquirrelyNutsDSP]

Eh, not too sure on Kerkorian's motives right now, but all I can say is I doubt that man is in it to lose money.

 

How does this immediately force GM to make shittier products? There is no way you can come to that conclusion without some gross over-simplifications; there is no direct correlation and you can't predict a particular chain of events at this point.

[Brandon]

Well if Kerkorian gets on the board, that means one more bean counter, not puting the proper amount of money into reasearch and development, and trying to strave every dime out of 20 year old designs.

[Adam]

have you not been paying attention to gm's improvements lately, they are definitely making the right decisions to becoming the leader again, you are about 5 years late on this one

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Car Enthusiast:

have you not been paying attention to gm's improvements lately, they are definitely making the right decisions to becoming the leader again, you are about 5 years late on this one

Wrong again, there is improvement, but their is a reason why they are on the edge of junk status, and their is a reason why they are falling in sales, and down 1.1 billon. I think your 5 years to late for hope. The bean counters ruined that company, and I hope for Americas sake it gets back in dynasty form. Didnt help we made Japan our enemys

[SquirrelyNutsDSP]

I think you are over-simplifying things a bit. You have to first realize that making a quality product does not mean people will like OR buy it. And trends, such as SUV's come and go...

 

Consider that the S&P came out today and downgraded GM bonds to junk status. This is irregardless of what Kerkorian did yesterday, and consider how low GM stock would be right now if he hadn't put that offer out. I see a sad trend in American automotive business, not in the products they're making...GM has something like $19 billion in reserves, whereas the speculation is that at around $10-11 billion they would declare bankruptcy. Just consider how much of GM sales is SUV and the trend of gas prices...

 

It's not a bad product, it's busness sense and foresight.

[AngryBMW]

Originally posted by B:

Wrong again, there is improvement, but their is a reason why they are on the edge of junk status, and their is a reason why they are falling in sales, and down 1.1 billon. I think your 5 years to late for hope. The bean counters ruined that company, and I hope for Americas sake it gets back in dynasty form. Didnt help we made Japan our enemys

Brandon, have you been following this at all? Do you know what a Junk Bond is? Id say that GM is still a dynasty, just not as strong as they were 25 years ago.

-Marc

[Adam]

let me get this all of us internet wizards have deduced that if gm makes quality cars then they will be back in business, but somehow these "bean counters" that have millions maybe even billions of dollars just can't seem to figure out the same mystifying concept, you can never get anykind of feel for a company in one internet article, if you think gm or any of the domestics don't know how to make money then you are a trying way to hard to seem smart

[Guest powers]

Originally posted by Car Enthusiast:

let me get this all of us internet wizards have deduced that if gm makes quality cars then they will be back in business, but somehow these "bean counters" that have millions maybe even billions of dollars just can't seem to figure out the same mystifying concept, you can never get anykind of feel for a company in one internet article, if you think gm or any of the domestics don't know how to make money then you are a trying way to hard to seem smart

"Car enthusiasts" are a very small fraction of who companies like GM traget. All the the highly profitable automotive car companies have made most of their money from some of their most boring designs. With out those bean counters the company could already be in bankrupty which could take along time to recover from.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by MadMalibu:

Brandon, have you been following this at all? Do you know what a Junk Bond is? Id say that GM is still a dynasty, just not as strong as they were 25 years ago.

-Marc

Ya they are on the limit of becoming junk status.I have been following it because I think its important, I also do believe that Gm is not really a dynasty any more, at least thats what their sales numbers describe.

 

Adam, what GM is doing right at this point in time is the fact that they have gone away from starving every dime and nickel out of old products, they are changing their stragetys which during the ninghtys opened the door for the japenese to steal large amounts of sales.

[Adam]

greg understands how car companies make money

 

brandon you are still behind on your history of the pitfalls of gm, the lack of quality let asian car companies into the domestic markets in the 80's quality began to come back in the mid 90's where it has been getting better since it just takes the public to catch on and the stereotypes about cars to be forgotten, gm is still trying to phase out the bad name plates from the past that is why you are seeing more and more new/resurrected nameplates showing up

[Avenger1647545502]

And yet they killed the Camaro and Firebird, and diluted the Corvette (by sharing the platform with Cadillac)and the GTO(by making it dull-looking)? Those are the most famous names in the GM lineup the last few years. And their revival names haven't really been a success, look at the Malibu and Cutlass from a few years ago. Even the Monte Carlo and Impala would be much less of a success if GM didn't control 75% of the rental car industry. And didn't they just cancel the "zeta" RWD platform cars, across the board?

I just don't see any innovation coming from GM the last few years, or for the next few either.

[excell]

Sorry guys, they are now junk.

 

Ugh for GM and Ford

[High Octane]

Originally posted by Avenger:

And yet they killed the Camaro and Firebird, and diluted the Corvette (by sharing the platform with Cadillac)and the GTO(by making it dull-looking)? Those are the most famous names in the GM lineup the last few years. And their revival names haven't really been a success, look at the Malibu and Cutlass from a few years ago. Even the Monte Carlo and Impala would be much less of a success if GM didn't control 75% of the rental car industry. And didn't they just cancel the "zeta" RWD platform cars, across the board?

I just don't see any innovation coming from GM the last few years, or for the next few either.

Wrong, the GTO is a Holden Monaro with an ugly pontiac front grill.

Outside of the down grade by pontiac the Holden Monaro is a world class, beautiful, contemporary, stylish, performance sedan.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by (s)aint ZX:

Sorry guys, they are now junk.

 

Ugh for GM and Ford

Yup this is definatly the begining of the end for gm and ford. They can not borrow any more money, which means new products are put on hold, and also means the money they have borrowed is getting hit with exteremely high interest rates. Its sad to see the American car companies fall, but they definalty in the downward spiral.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Car Enthusiast:

greg understands how car companies make money

 

brandon you are still behind on your history of the pitfalls of gm, the lack of quality let asian car companies into the domestic markets in the 80's quality began to come back in the mid 90's where it has been getting better since it just takes the public to catch on and the stereotypes about cars to be forgotten, gm is still trying to phase out the bad name plates from the past that is why you are seeing more and more new/resurrected nameplates showing up

Gm has failed at everything from 1980 to now, and this is why they are in huge debt, which in turn gave them the wonderfull status of junk. Adam your right about sterotypes, and that is a direct fault to GM, and only GM.They built shit for so long that people had to resort else where for a better product, which the Japenese were doing, ( Gm was just greedy and charging the same amount for a lesser quality product, recieving quick gains, while the Japense have slowly swooped into total control, with a less profit per product then GM, but a better product, which is altimatly what the consumer wants. ok back on topic). Just look at any one of General motors cars with in the last 10 years, and how their values held up compaird to the Japense car companys, Honda, and Toyota, its painfully obvious who built a better product.

 

Moral of the story drastic changes need to occur, for both Ford, and GM, they should have made these changes years ago, but sadly I think its little too late. And no one get the misconception that I am a GM hater, cause I have no proublems with them at all, infact it would please me to see them dominate the market once again, and destroy the Japense, but unfortunalty its very unlikly that will happen.

This is for Madmalibu.....Dynasty what.....

[Adam]

its sad that you actually think that brandon, in 20 years i'll make fun of you for being wrong about them and make fun about your car still not running tongue.gif

[Mowgli1647545497]

No - its the beginning of the turnaround. Its amazing how much a company can get done when "bullshit time" is over. Fingers crossed.

 

IMO - The unions and suppliers and product planners are about to, and need to, get a harsh lesson in reality.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Mowgli:

No - its the beginning of the turnaround. Its amazing how much a company can get done when "bullshit time" is over. Fingers crossed.

 

IMO - The unions and suppliers are about to, and need to, get a harsh lesson in reality.

Uhh the union can forgot about striking now, and they can forget about the amazing treatment they have had during GM and Ford's haydays.

 

And it could possibly be a turnaround I agree, time will tell.

[Tractor]

I've worked in a few auto plants as an outside contractor and can easily see the problems unions cause. Its no wonder the imports were able to build a better product. They don't have the high cost of unions to work with. Unions can be a good thing, but I think they've outlived there usefulness in the US.

 

Evan