DTM Brian Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 After running around with this turbo kit for 4 years at 500+ RWHP. I am wondering how pratical 600 is. This is the first year that I have really played with the boost at all. I have found that it pulls 500 consistently at 10 psi and 550 with 600 foot pounds of torque at 12psi. So with every pound of boost, I get about 25 horsepower to the tires. There are some other options to increase power before raising boost that I am considering. At 550 RWHP, I am still running 2 1/2 inch exhaust. At 580 rwhp with 2 1/2 inch exhaust. Incon suggests that going to a 3 inch exhaust will pull 610 RWHP at the same boost level. As far as intakes go, Switching from a cobra "cork" intake to a Holley System Max will also pick up 30 RWHP at any boost level. I am currently running 36 pound injectors which is, according to incon, 540 RWHP. So I need to upgrade injectors to 42 pounders which I already have. I should probably consider a fuel system which I want it to be good for at least 1000 horsepower when I build a new motor. So my question is this, If Vortech Combos are making between 500-550 RWHP on a stock shortblock before failing, Can I go 600? First off I am not using 100 crank horsepower to spin the blower. Secondly, I am only spinning my motor to 5400 rpms to make peak power. Generally you will spin a blower car to 6000 to make the same power. I know that it takes about 14-15 pounds of boost with a S trim to make as much power as I am at 10 psi. The blower motor has to work harder then my turbo setup for the same power. So is 600 rwhp on good gas possible with an intake, exhaust and 12-13 pounds of boost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slow4now Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Where at in the powerband are you making your peak torque, and where is a comparative Vortech car making it's peak torque? Generally torque is what tends to break stuff. I would think that the lack of parasitic loss and (possibly) lower shock to the drivetrain may allow you to make more power on the same bottom end as that of a vortech 5 liter. If you can get to 600whp by replacing the intake mannifold and freeing up the exhaust, I think you will be fine. IMO opening up the exhaust is "free" power (with the fact that you have to pay for it aside ) , I can't think of any negatives to doing so. Only possible downside is the turbos should spool faster, increasing low end power...which would give you more torque to snap something like a crank. Given that your bottom end has 100K on it, it's realy hard to say what will happen. Sorry, I'm not help! smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lustalbert Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 why not. the engine will need rebuilt eventually, might as well create an excuse to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost-n-Juice Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 I say go for it, It's VERY realistic. Just watch the fuel system. One little hick-up and it's bad news! check your damn PM's! don't mke me come after your ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Well, 12 to 13psi is nearing double atmosperic pressure. If it has a turbo kit im guessing it has lowerd your compression ratio somehow. If you keep the intake charge cool, suppress any form of detonation, and keep feeding the beast fuel, you should be able to hit jackpot. I just hope your final drive and clutch can take it! graemlins/burnout.gif what kind of car is it, and do you know the limitations of your block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 I remember reading something in HotRod or one of the other rags about a guy with a stock lower end in a Formula firebird screwing around and getting into the either really low 10's or maybe a really high 9. Either way, he was a good bit over 600 motor horse. NA motor, with a factory lower end. By factory, he claimed that he had NEVER had the pan off the motor. It listed a bunch of shit that he did to the heads, then switched heads, cams, intakes, all sorts of shit. And was spraying it. If I remember right the last pass he made, knowing there wasa new motor on a stand he sprayed it really hard and did the low pass. But I can't see why, unless you are planning to run the shit out of it all the time, it will not hold 600 or better, at least for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 I'd sure think going bigger on the exhaust side and a better intake is nothing but a good idea. Same goes for the upgrading of the fuel system. Further, what about the intercooler?? How big is your current one, and can you reasonably go bigger? Perhaps even add on an air-water unit. And how about heads?? Perhaps something with slightly larger chambers (lowering the CR a bit), and flow a lot better (assuming a good head, properly ported). A far better flowing head will make more power at the same PSI, which definately isn't a bad thing. This is just my personal opinion, but since you are playing with fire as it is with that shortblock, do everything possible to increase power without increasing overall boost pressure. Heads/intake/exhaust/intercooler all seem like great places to do just that. Perhaps a different cam to go along with it. smile.gif Of course, that's funds permitting........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Originally posted by Nathan P: Well, 12 to 13psi is nearing double atmosperic pressure. If it has a turbo kit im guessing it has lowerd your compression ratio somehow. If you keep the intake charge cool, suppress any form of detonation, and keep feeding the beast fuel, you should be able to hit jackpot. I just hope your final drive and clutch can take it! graemlins/burnout.gif what kind of car is it, and do you know the limitations of your block? Did you know atmospheric pressure is 14.7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Regardless of ANYTHING there is a physical limit to the amount of cylinder pressure that the stock pistons/rods/block can handle. You are far past that already. Will it handle 600rwhp? Yes, Maybe for one pull on the dyno, maybe for 6,000 miles, but it WILL break. Not to many vortech guys make 500rwhp with stock short blocks. Many with stock BLOCKS, but they have nice rotating assemblies. Low end torque is an issue as well. I wager to say we see some modular turbo cars with destroyed bottom ends due to the low end torque from turbo set-ups. I'd sell the 42's and the 36's and get some high impedance 55's if I where you. Throw some sn95 fuel rails on, and a walbo 255lph hi-pressure pump and you'll be good to go. IMHO, don't break the car. Drive it at 500rwhp, build a REAL motor and go from there. Shooting for 600rwhp could cause serious damage if something lets go (cracked block = cracked transmission in many cases, not to mention cylinder head damage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowV10 Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 I will tell you for sure right now..... that the only thing that will do your motor in is detonation. If you have no detonation and ample fuel, then keep cranking it up. You would be surprised what stock components can take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badmuthrfkr Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Originally posted by slowC5: I will tell you for sure right now..... that the only thing that will do your motor in is detonation. If you have no detonation and ample fuel, then keep cranking it up. You would be surprised what stock components can take. Prime example: *cough*Mike Carlins 98 Supra, 980rwhponstockbottmend*cough* smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevil Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Go for 600, sure! graemlins/thumb.gif Block won't last long. To get the really big numbers and lots of little pieces, swap the spray from the primer car onto the turbo car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Originally posted by slowC5: I will tell you for sure right now..... that the only thing that will do your motor in is detonation. If you have no detonation and ample fuel, then keep cranking it up. You would be surprised what stock components can take. Besides the wrist pins pulling out of the pistons (which will happen) because of cylinder pressure. There IS a limit to what those stock components can take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 i figured 12 and 13 is close to 14.7 graemlins/asshole.gif hehe, just teasin. Originally posted by rl: Regardless of ANYTHING there is a physical limit to the amount of cylinder pressure that the stock pistons/rods/block can handle. You are far past that already. Will it handle 600rwhp? Yes, Maybe for one pull on the dyno, maybe for 6,000 miles, but it WILL break. Not to many vortech guys make 500rwhp with stock short blocks. Many with stock BLOCKS, but they have nice rotating assemblies. Low end torque is an issue as well. I wager to say we see some modular turbo cars with destroyed bottom ends due to the low end torque from turbo set-ups. I'd sell the 42's and the 36's and get some high impedance 55's if I where you. Throw some sn95 fuel rails on, and a walbo 255lph hi-pressure pump and you'll be good to go. IMHO, don't break the car. Drive it at 500rwhp, build a REAL motor and go from there. Shooting for 600rwhp could cause serious damage if something lets go (cracked block = cracked transmission in many cases, not to mention cylinder head damage) +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest turbojc Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by White Supra: Prime example: *cough*Mike Carlins 98 Supra, 980rwhponstockbottmend*cough* smile.gif Thats a totaly different animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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