job question

[Guest busteryhyman]

Alright, I'm in dire need of getting a job, but of course i'm turned down about anywhere. I have my Associates in Accounting and in about 3 weeks i'll have my Doctor of Divinity degree (from a religious institution)

 

now here's the problem. Visible piercings and tattoos. I refuse to compromise myself for the sake of a job (i'll continue to make websites if i have to do that), but i have visible tattoos on my arms and my lip pierced..

 

any ideas on places around here that just dont care?

[justcause]

How about trying to teach at an art school or a small startup company that encourages freedom of expression, for example, a small website company.

[BloodRed]

My only suggestion coming from another Accountant is to put a clear spacer in your piercing or leave it out while at work, and wear long sleeve shirts. Try look very professional while at work, but do what ever you want after work and weekends. That is what I do.

[Trouble Maker]

If yourself is defined by your pericings and tattos you have other issues. Get over your reblious stage and do what punkrocker3_00 says. Go make some money, that's the bottom line (or I don't think you'd be posting this).

[Mensan]

You need to decide which is more important to you and make a decision based on that. Don't sel out on here because people tell you to. If the job is more important, you may have to sacrifice personal expression. If personal expression is more important, you may have to sacrifice a higher paying job.

[Wease]

Yeah, no offense, but my brother went through this same sort of thing. In college, he dressed all grunge, lots of piercings, etc.. When he graduated and started interviewing, he cleaned right up. He had to. After seeing some of the other people he was up against and not getting a second interview or a job, he had to change his appearance. Very few places will take you seriously as a professional when you look like that. My brother doesn't look anything like he used to, he had to get cleaned up, otherwise he'd still be working fast food. Be it right or wrong, you have to decide what is more important to you. smile.gif

 

That's why when I see kids (or young adults) with lots of peircings, they dress down, etc., I think to myself: Have fun, look like that and enjoy it while you are young. Because if you to become a professional in a normal workplace at some point in your life, you can't look like that... graemlins/thumb.gif

[Trouble Maker]

Originally posted by Mensan:

You need to decide which is more important to you and make a decision based on that. Don't sel out on here because people tell you to. If the job is more important, you may have to sacrifice personal expression. If personal expression is more important, you may have to sacrifice a higher paying job.

Well said. It's obviously just my opinion but I don't think it's selling out to dress how some place wants you to dress for a job. For me selling out for a job is morally or ethically doing something one doesn't think they should do. It's a job and you should have fun doing it. But if it makes you sad when your lip piercing is out and people can't see your tattoos there are some deeper-seated issues there. Dress however you want during the times your not at work.

 

It's also not just about pay, it's about flexibility to do what you want to do as far as a job. My job now after I finished school is honestly one of the least stressful jobs I've had, one of the best and most fun groups of people I've worked with, and I have one of the best bosses I've ever had. I won't say I didn't get lucky with all of those, but if I didn't like where I worked or what I was doing I could just look for another job. The likely hood of me getting said possible job looking 'normal' is much higher than if I had lots of body modifications done. I'm sure she'd also like to use her two degrees she has which is alot less likely to happen if she doesn't sacrifice the way she looks.

 

But I do agree that you should look at if it's worth it to you to sacrifice that.

[Guest Tony_K]

Originally posted by BusterHyman:

now here's the problem. Visible piercings and tattoos. I refuse to compromise myself for the sake of a job

 

any ideas on places around here that just dont care?

BWAHAHAHAHA! The MTV generation joins the real world! tongue.gif Wearing sleeves and taking a piece of metal out of your mouth is "compromising yourself"? BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA I heard Kinko's is hiring. Maybe there's a warehouse on the west side that needs someone to drive a towmotor.

 

Okay, I'm just giving you a hard time... tongue.gif

 

Seriously, is your outward appearance that important to how you define yourself?

 

Reality = real companies with real jobs with real benefits are not managed by people with tattoos and piercings. Party's over - gonna have to conform to the standards of the people who make the money.

 

Good luck. smile.gif

 

EDIT: Or move to the SF Bay Area and work in the media. (seriously - lots of people with needlework there)

 

[ 16. June 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Tony K ]

[Guest nevarmore]

Tony is a bit of an ass ( ), but he is right.

 

I had to deal with this, to a lesser extent, with my hair. I used to wear it down all the time. I looked like Cousin It or Dustin Hoffman in his role in The Crow. To get a job, it had to get pulled back and I had to keep the undercut shaved down.

 

I still have the hair, but I can't wing it around like I used to because I have to work. My hair used to define who I was, but now its just another part of my outward appearance that I can use to control how people look at me.

 

My brother is in IT, he has a tat on his calf and a single earring. AFAIK he takes the earring out for really important mettings and always has the tat covered.

 

Clean up a bit and get a job, money looks better than ink.

[desperado]

The other option, which is sort of defeating the self expression thing is to take it out while you are interviewing, then when you get a job, do whatever. But most places have dress codes the prohibit piercings other than ear rings.

 

I guess being older, and having gone through the ripped jeans, bandana on the leg, long hair thing. And the several other phases of being a dumb fuck kid, I can't agree with the idea that it's about self expression or that you are comprimising a damn thing, other than you want to draw attention to yourself. It's about standing out and making people notice you, being noticed in a positive light is not important, you just want people to look when you walk by, which is the same reason that we ALL do that shit. So I will say that you would have a hard time gettig me to believe that having your body punched full of holes and covered with tatoo's is expression of personality. You might like to look like that, you may do it simply to draw attention to yourself, but I am curious as to what personality traits that having your lip pierced and a nose ring represents exactly. Are you trying to convey that you are some badass that whats to kick the shit out of the world? That you are no one to be messed with? If that's the case, just run out and have FUCK YOU tatooed to your forehead. Otherwise, clean up, grow up and face the reality that either you want to be excepted tin the business world, or you want to have a job with snappy one liners like "Would you like to supersize that?" And BTW, McDonalds will NOT talk to you about a job with excesive piercings and excessive visible tatoo's either.

 

Your other option to get people to notice you is LOTS of plastic surgury. Ax the tat's, loose the stainless steel and become a perfect ten. Then people with notice you. That or just walk around topless, it IS legal in Ohio now after all. That will draw lots of attention too.

 

BTW, I am an equal opertunity asshole, you might not like what I have to say, but I don't figure that I like your apperance figuring that you have more chrome than a antique Buick so we are about even.

[Mensan]

Originally posted by Desperado:

...having gone through the ripped jeans, bandana on the leg, long hair thing...

Your new name is...Punky Brewster. tongue.gif

[desperado]

Pretty much it. I didn't figure that anyone remembered that screeching little brat.

[Olds455]

Originally posted by Desperado:

...having gone through the ripped jeans, bandana on the leg, long hair thing...

rico....suave....

[Nitrousbird]

I used to have hair down to my shoulders in college. A few months before I started interviewing, I had it ALL chopped off. I knew I was going to do this right when I started growing it.....if I wanted to be taken seriously in the job market, it had to be done.

 

While I was working for Lucent, I did get my ear pierced. One hole, and I take it out for any job interview I go to. Apperance is a BBBIIIGG factor when it comes to getting a job.

 

I do have to ask though; you are getting a "Doctor of Divinity degree" yet you have a lot of visible tat's, piercings, and the screen name BusterHyman. Something doesn't seem quite right there, anyone else agree??

[Mensan]

Originally posted by Nitrousbird:

I do have to ask though; you are getting a "Doctor of Divinity degree" yet you have a lot of visible tat's, piercings, and the screen name BusterHyman. Something doesn't seem quite right there, anyone else agree??

No.

[Tractor]

Clean up. When your at a job your being paid by an employer for your time. They tell you what to do how to do it and most of the time how to look while your doing it. While your at work your probably interacting with customers and they are looking at you and sizing up the company by how you look, and act towards them and your company.

I've been in Nationwides call center and they have a few people in there that look like they got problems. Maybe you can work there.

 

Evan

[Science Abuse]

Originally posted by Tony K:

Wearing sleeves and taking a piece of metal out of your mouth is "compromising yourself"? BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA I heard Kinko's is hiring. Maybe there's a warehouse on the west side that needs someone to drive a towmotor.

Actualy, my warehouse is hiring, and I could get him a job for $10 an hour, with benifits, we NEED people, now....but I'm not going to.

We have no problem with peircings or tattoos, hoblic even worked with us. But I'm not going to reffer a dude who defines himself through a peice of steel in his face. graemlins/jerkit.gif

 

Peircing boy, consider this:

You've put your time and effort into attaining two degrees, BOTH in feilds that are obviously going to have some kind of dress code, yet you refuse to compramise your childish body art. You "could" be a successfull accountant, you "could" be a pastor somewhere, or you "could" go on to teach either of those two some where.

But no, you're hard core, you're a rebel, you're and individual....now give my my motherfucking fries, hell yeah I want'm biggie sized, son!

[PonyPimpstress1647545491]

Hey Eric.... you should get the gender of the person you are making fun of correct.... it's a SHE

[Guest Rane]

Oh in that case, dress how you want. Whoever said work was supposed to be fun must be misinformed. In some lucky situations a person will enjoy work, the rest of the world will take it up the ass and do what there told. For example dress/look how they want you to. I don't have any tatoo's or peircings I probably wouldn't get either for any reason. Maybe a tatoo of a cross somewhere but probably not, self expression is over rated. No sense of fashion=self expression! Stupid metal all over my face= Self expression! Skateboarding=Self expression!

 

Come on now stuff like Skateboarding is meant to be fun, its not meant to say. Oh I love the world and my dog yea...And my friends, no its meant to be entertaining. Tatoo's when not trying to just look cool can be some form of expression but then you would only need 1 tatoo. Peircings are just, O.o??? You tell me, anyways. Thats not what the world wants to see, its not normal to be all goth/punked out. I don't have a problem with it personally, but its just not what I am used to and not normal so I would probably rather get my food served to me from someone who looks clean and well dressed. Or buy my whatever from someone who looks credible. Out of curiosity, you said you are in a religious school. I am guessing christian if so does "Treat your body like a temple." mean anything to you? Not trying to offend you just curious on how diffrent people look at that.

[Guest Tony_K]

Originally posted by Nitrousbird:

I do have to ask though; you are getting a "Doctor of Divinity degree" yet you have a lot of visible tat's, piercings, and the screen name BusterHyman. Something doesn't seem quite right there, anyone else agree??

"Divinity" (whatever that means), not *Theology*. It sounds like one of those little certificates that confers minister status on you so you can perform marriage ceremonies among secularized people who do or do not believe things that may or may not be rooted in an actual religion, but obviously don't subscribe to a real religion.

 

As for piercings and tattoos... I think they are ugly. The female human form in good health is as beautiful as anything in the world can get. Tattoos and piercings are like putting graffiti and a body kit on a Ferrari Dino 246. Oh well, just my opinion.

 

tongue.gif Tony

[Guest Tony_K]

Rane -

 

Christian schools will typically confer diplomas with words like "Bible" and "Christian" in them, not "Divinity."

 

"Divinity" is usually just kind of a bs general term for studies among agnostic/secular/atheist/freaked-out-ritual-shit people that aren't seriously religious to give them an air of theological legitimacy.

 

In the book of Leviticus, the Bible specifically prohibits tattooing. In the "Christian" world, tattoos are typically only welcomed by the same fringe groups that welcome homosexuality and other things that are explicitly forbidden in the OT.

[Mensan]

Originally posted by Tony K:

In the book of Leviticus, the Bible specifically prohibits tattooing. In the "Christian" world, tattoos are typically only welcomed by the same fringe groups that welcome homosexuality and other things that are explicitly forbidden in the OT.

The book of Leviticus also says it's OK to own slaves (Lev 25:44). Oh, and another good one: If you blaspheme, you should be stoned to death (Lev 24:16). Last one, if you sleep with your in laws, you should be burned to death (Lev 20:14). If you want to be lent credibility while quoting from the bible, perhaps the book of Leviticus isn't where you should get your inspiration; it seems outdated. I didn't even touch on burning sacrificial animals, or not having any contact with women during their period of "uncleanliness".

[Guest Tony_K]

I'm glad you can quote the Bible. Yay for you! tongue.gif

 

I was simply stating the well-known fact that mainstream Protestant-based Christian denominations believe that people should not tattoo themselves, and it stems from the mention in Leviticus. This is fact. Go back to Theology school if you don't believe me. I am not looking for crebibility in quoting from the Bible, as I am not a Protestant-based Christian. I was simply informing Rane of differences in religious belief between your average midwestern self-proclaimed Christian and where you will typically hear the word "Divinity" used, in order to suggest that "BusterHyman" most likely did not receive a degree from a Christian academy.

 

Geez - it sounds like you are angry at the book of Leviticus. You are not stating anything that anyone who has studied the Bible doesn't know.

 

What seems to be over your head is the reasons why some of the teachings in the OT are still held by mainstream Christians while others are not. In simplest terms, the reasons behind some of the laws no longer affect or apply to civilization today, while others still do. For example, the "don't bang your wife during mestruation" thing is popularly believed to have been for health reasons, like the whole "don't eat pork" thing.

 

Christian theologians of all branches of Christianity believe that there is a reason and purpose for God's teaching that is for the better of humanity, beyond simply "I'm God, X is good, Y is bad, and that's the way it is because I'm God and I said so." (although I'm not so sure about the Southern Baptists! tongue.gif ) Unfortunately, this does not usually trickle down to the pulpit in most Protestant churches. But I'm glad you realize that stoning someone for a sexual act is out of date! graemlins/thumb.gif

 

You have probably heard the following Christian teachings on why not to tattoo: "Desecrating your body, which is a gift from God (and perfect in its own right)"; "Vanity"; "unnecessary hurting and possibility of causing infection to the body". These are all watered down from a core *Catholic* teaching (I can't speak for Jews, someone else chimne in) that runs very strong in the OT, and is the basis behind God's law in Leviticus on tattooing: "I am the Lord. Thou shalt have no other gods besides Me." In ancient Canonical law and in modern Christian belief, tattooing is a worshipping of the flesh. Do not interpret this literally as "thinking your skin is God". The ideology behind it all is that God should be the most important thing in your life and that your whole existence revolves around Him. If you are placing that kind of attention on your body, then you are placing your body above God. The same goes for materialism: you are "making material things your God" - meaning that they are more important in your life than God is.

 

God follows the tattoo comment with "I am the Lord." This assertion of the first Commandment is an underlying theme through parts of Leviticus. Try interpreting it as "*I* am the Lord, not this other bullshit that people do," rather than "I am the Lord so you have to do what I say."

 

Or maybe I'm all wrong, and according to the Book of Mensan, we can all just tear Leviticus out of the Bibles since it is "outdated." Seriously, try not to be so arrogant, or at least do more than read it with a jaundiced eye and laugh at it. I'm not trying to preach to anyone here and I don't care what you do or believe; I'm just clearing up lack of theological knowledge of "ricer" proportions.

 

Cheers,

 

Tony

[Guest Tony_K]

By the way, there is a "BusterHyman" and a "Buster Hyman" on here. Same person/different logins, or just two people who thought of such a clever name? What happened to the job scouting for porn actors?

[Mensan]

Calm down bro. I am not advocating tearing any books out of the bible. The Catholic church already did that when they chose which books they wanted to use from the Torah. The entire bible is subject to interpretation. I don't think there is anything in there that a believer shouldn't view with a critical eye. Obviously the things we mentioned wouldn't be received well in todays world. Continuing along the same lines of thinking, when reading from the bible, in my belief I think it best to think of other people. Some people have a hard time doing this, even though from what I understand the Christian religion is said to be based on forgiving. I have met several people who interpret the bible this way. Unfortunately I have also met many more who have used it to discriminate, and use the book as a scapegoat for their own biases and hatred. I have a problem with using any holy book in this manner.

 

To me, the purpose of any religion is to bring people together, but hey, every religion has its crazies. Look at these guys in the middle east. They are similar in their theories to the crazies in Israel, and even right here in the good ole USA. Those people who bomb abortion clinics and gay bars in the name of religion are just as bad. Religion should be used as a guide when you have trouble making your own decisions.

 

 

SO. To sum up, are tattoos really a desecration of a holy structure (the body)? I don't think so. But then again, that is also one of the things that is up to an individuals interpretation. I don't think it is. What's your take?