removing fuel tanks from under ground????

[Boxxbanger1]

dont know if anyone knows any info, but im hoping. Im looking at buying a building for my detail shop, but it used to be a gas station. the tanks are still in the ground and they have not been used for about 30 years maybe even longer. the guy that owns the building and is looking to sell has had it most of his life for his mechanic shop. he is in his 70's and wanting to retire. and the building is his retirement fund. i know he cant afford to pay to have the tanks removed and neither can i.

 

is there any government funding or assistance avalibale to have old fuel tanks removed? im really worried about the chance of them leaking. i stuck a long pole down the full hole and it was still wet at the bottom, but maybe it just hasent leaked all the way out.

 

any info would be appreciated....

[Orion]

it probably isnt fuel. if i recall correctly, it isnt required by law to remove them. more likely, youll have to fill them in, either with dirt or some other filler.

 

just talked to my father (general superintendent) and his recollection is that if your going to be digging or building in the area, youll have to have the tanks removed for sure. otherwise, someone needs to come out and check for soil contamination, and if there isnt any, then they can be filled in and left in the ground.

[boostedgtp]

I believe if you are going thru a bank to get the funds to buy the place, the bank wont loan the money unless the tanks are out of the ground. My family just sold an old gas station and everyone who came to look at it said that anyways.

 

-carl

[desperado]

The tanks will need removed, and they need to be inspected by the State Fire Marshal or a local acredited fire personal. The state has a specific department for the regulating of underground tanks.

 

http://www.com.state.oh.us/sfm/bust/

 

The specific regulations for tank status modification

 

https://www.com.state.oh.us/sfm/bustr/PDFs/rules/1301-7-9-12.pdf

 

You need to also remember that teh Ohio EPA will want to come out and do a soil sample and possibly pull several core samples before they will sign off on the land changing hands.

 

The oil pit that use to be a NTR, from what I understand cost Rader close to 1 million dollars to clean up before the NHRA could buy the properity.

[Orion]

welp, shows ya what i know. thanks keith.

[desperado]

The EPA since it lost a bunch of funding during the Reagan administration, and funds were never allocated by Clinton or the Bush'es found out that they had to provide for themselves. It's no different than OSHA, anyone here over the age of 30 knows what has gone on with them in the last 10 to 15 yrs. They have taken to walking on a construction site and telling guys that have been doing the same shit the same way for 30 plus years without a problem that their practices are unsafe and fining them for it. EPA is doing the same thing. They create regulations and then enforce them. Now I will say that in this specific case, it's a needed thing. Before regulation, tanks would just be abandoned, only to begin leaking gasoline into the ground and eventually the water table. And if they did get anything done with them, they were pumped, if the guy didn't have a long enough hose or what ever he would just leave fuel in the tank and them a track hoe would punch into the tank, break out the bottom and fill it with dirt. This of course ALWAYS contaminated the ground. If this wasn't done, and the tank was just pumped and abandoned, it would over time, depending on the amount of ground water in the area, would begin to rise out of the ground because it was empty tanks will float. They would actually come out of the ground like this. So they watch all this pretty closely now. So you can about bet that there is something in those tanks, because after 30 years of being empty, they would no be underground tanks any more, they would be coming out of the ground most likely.

 

I am not trying to sway you from buying this property, I am just trying to let you know that if there is a problem with it in the eyes of the EPA, or Fire Marshal division of Industrial Compliance or BUSTR that you could end up in the poor house by the time you got it all fixed. And the thing is that once the EPA sinks it's teeth in, it's like a pitbull. They will bring in a cleanup crew, do the clean up and leave you with the bill. And I know from a friends personal experience, both doign cleanup and having a problem and being sited, the EPA doen't know what compassion or llienancy is. So make sure that ALL the proper documentation is in order and you have the correct paperwork in hand before moving on that.

[Guest powers]

I believe if you are going thru a bank to get the funds to buy the place, the bank wont loan the money unless the tanks are out of the ground. My family just sold an old gas station and everyone who came to look at it said that anyways.

 

-carl

this is correct. You will get ZERO financing from any conventional source if those tanks are still in the ground, and or you do not have the proper documentation for their proper removal.

 

Every mortgage on every property gets an EPA certification which most people do not realize.

 

worse case you can have the seller give you personal financing on the property. Draw up a note and start making payments to him. You would have full title rights to the property. Most of the time in those situations the notes are 5-10 yr ballons so you have to a few years to get the tank situation figured out. Then refi the property paying the loan to the current owner off and you now will have a conventional loan on the property.

[desperado]

worse case you can have the seller give you personal financing on the property. You would have full title rights to the property.

 

I got to say that this is a bad idea. Reason is that once he enters into a purchase contract with the current owner, he maybe held legally responsible for the expense of the tank removal. And since the tanks have not floated up, there is SOMETHING in them. If the removal procedure results in a spill, and remember that you will have to have an official on site for the removal, so ther is NO covering it up, he would possibly be held finacially responsible for the cleanup cost, and any sort of cleanup would take place at the time of the spill and would be done by a licensed (very expensive) contractor for the EPA. Please remember that at no time that the EPA is involved is anything cheap.

 

Some idea, Pilot Truckstop 10 yrs ago left the cap off their tank during a flood. They floated about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel out and into a corn field. By the time they were done it cost them 1.5 million.

[Lustalbert]

1.5 mil? Damn. A match would have been much cheaper.

[Guest powers]

I got to say that this is a bad idea. Reason is that once he enters into a purchase contract with the current owner, he maybe held legally responsible for the expense of the tank removal. And since the tanks have not floated up, there is SOMETHING in them. If the removal procedure results in a spill, and remember that you will have to have an official on site for the removal, so ther is NO covering it up, he would possibly be held finacially responsible for the cleanup cost, and any sort of cleanup would take place at the time of the spill and would be done by a licensed (very expensive) contractor for the EPA. Please remember that at no time that the EPA is involved is anything cheap.

 

Some idea, Pilot Truckstop 10 yrs ago left the cap off their tank during a flood. They floated about 1000 gallons of diesel fuel out and into a corn field. By the time they were done it cost them 1.5 million.

Yes but he would hire a company to excavate them rather than do it himself which carries liabilty insurance and relieves you of any financial burdon. I also highly dought that a small filling station has anywhere near that amount of fuel or oil in these tanks as a truck stop.

[desperado]

Agreed, I don't think that the cleanup of 500 gallons of gas would be as costly, but what I am getting at is this, if he hires a contractor that is versed in this sort of work they are not going to come cheap. If he hires some guy that digs swimming pools and graves mostly, and saves a few bucks, and there is no regulation saying that he can't. It will fall on the property owner first. It will be the responsibility of the property owner to sue the contractor for his losses. If the guy is normally digging 4 by 6 foot holes then chances are he is not even going to KNOW that he needs to carry a bond on the job.

 

Now as far as how full the tanks are. They are no less than 1/4 full of something. They would have to be to have enough weight to stay in the ground. So the question is how big are the tanks. If they are 4000 gallons then yes, there is 1000 gallons of gas in them. Typical gas station tanks are actually 3500 gallon, so they are gonna be close.