wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 I have a serious problem with getting any grass to grow. We have alot of trees that dont allow the yard to get much sunlight. We cut back alot of the low branches in hopes of getting more direct light. I know the guy who use to live here let the leaves pile up, and that this releases nitrogen into the ground. Has anyone ever lime treated their yard? If so how do you go about it and where do you get it? I cant find anything online that discusses this issue. I even had 2 seperate lawn companies attempt to make something happen but to no avail. Any help is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Well, there is a good way and a not so good way to do this. How big is the yard for starters? I would suggest putting in a sprinkler system first, then call Jones Top soil and have them put down or you can put down around an inch or so of top soil. You will then seed the yard as if there was no grass. Purchase Penn Mulch and layer over the seed. Water it with the sprinkler, and wait 10 days for new grass. By adding the top soil you will allow the seed to have something to root into, by adding the sprinklers you will prevent the feeder roots on the trees from taking all of the water during low water times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mithesaint Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 leaves don't have much nitrogen in them, they are primarily carbon. You probably don't need new topsoil, you might be better off waiting till the weather warms up a little further and the ground dries out a little. Rent a roto tiller and till the leaves into the dirt. Apply a good balanced fertilizer, and level it out and plant a shade mix of grass, cover lightly with straw or something similar and water every three days if it doesn't rain. Orrrr.......blacktop it, paint it green, and call it a day:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 The yard never dries out. I have moss growing. If I take a rake to what little grass there is, it pulls it away. There is no root system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Anybody ever lime treat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 What did the yard companys say/do? Why not cut down a tree or two? I love trees as much as the next person but if its affecting your grass that much.. you might have to sacrifice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Most companies said they couldn't do anything. I had a few tell me to lime treat, but I have been looking online for more information. So far I havent been able to find a place that carries it. I did cut back some of the trees and take a few out. The only ones that remain are part of what little bit of landscaping we have. I was told that the damage is done. Unfortunately we live on the side of the street where our front yard gets very little sun. I'm just trying to find out what my options are. I was thinking about putting a new layer of soil and reseeding but I dont know if that will be good enough or if it wont matter because the soil below is to damaged. I dont want to spend money trying different things. If that would work I'll have a load delivered this week. Anyone work for a landscaping company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 The moss that you have growing is due to the lack of grass, which seems obvious. The problem though is that you have no top soil/hummus layer to promote new growth. This is a common problem in cbus as many times the yards are just backfill b horizon. The rototilling will work if you have decent soil there. The leaves are mostly carbon as was stated above. The lime treatment will serve to raise the pH of the soil, which if your trees were all evergreens might have been why the suggestion was made. You definitely need a good grass seed. I will finish this thought after I get to another computer, laptop is dying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Lime treating to help raise the ph of my soil could take months to years. Anyone know where I can get a buffer test done on my soil? If I were to top my soil with 2 inches of new soil directly overtop of what is there, would this promote good healthy growth? Or would the old soil damage any new growth? Nathan what is your background with this sort of stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 78novaman Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 I used to work in the landscaping business before I moved down here. Does this spot you are talking about always in the shade or does it get sunlight for at least a couple of hours? There are special grasses that grow in shaded areas. Any compedent (read: certified) landscaper should be able to point you in that direction. My boss always would go out for free and look at the site to make sure it wasn't drainage, poor soil, etc. and then make a recommendation. We would usually come in and use a sod cutter to strip the first inch or so off to remove any old grass, moss, weeds,etc. Then replace with some top quality shredded topsoil and seed. As pointed out, the main problem with lawns is usually the poor soil. To be cheap most places have sod thrown on top of fill dirt. We always removed all the debris from the poor soil, then mixed in some shredded topsoil where necessary, fertilized, then seeded. Blew some straw over it, in a few weeks they have a nice lawn coming up. Our lawns were guaranteed for 3 years and usually wound up looking like a golf course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 The spot is my entire yard. Poor drainage and poor soil, are both plaguing my yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I have a master's degree in Plant Pathology, with some pretty indepth knowledge on turf. There are some shade grass mixes out there, but generally speaking those are still some sort of perennial rye and blue grass mix. The straw, while working pretty well as a cover is definitely surpassed by the Penn Mulch. Your drainage problem is either created by A) incorrect slope away from the home, which is unlikely when I look at your driveway in the sig pic or B) my guess, which is that you have pretty much nothing but clay in your yard. The problem with clay is that it can take pretty much any fertility treatment you throw at it and make it look like nothing happened. I could get into why, but if your yard seems saturated for a long time then all of sudden appears to just dry out and cracks form then it is a high clay soil. Scotts sells very good products and you should see very good results by starting early, seeding well with seed that you verify has good germination (take a pinch of seed and place between to wet paper towels in a line down the middle of the towels. Roll up and place under your sink for about 5 days in a bucket with some, not a lot of water. Remove and count how many seeds germinated). A good seed lot will see 90% germination. Do not count on the bag and if there is no germination take it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I'm not an expert but our yard came out great with this equation. First we burned everything down, rototilled, Jones top soil, new seeds, fertilizer, then watered every once in a while. Looks great. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I'm not an expert but our yard came out great with this equation. First we burned everything down, rototilled, Jones top soil, new seeds, fertilizer, then watered every once in a while. Looks great. good luck Good equation, it will yield the desired results in almost all situations. I forgot to mention that Franklin OSU extension should be able to get you a soil pH without to much hassle. They might even be able to lend out the soil probe to get a few cores from different spots in the yard. Just call them up and talk to the Ag and Nat Res agent about soil testing services. It has been a few years so my info is probably not the most current and they field these types of questions regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Okay I had the topsoil delivered today. All 10,000 #'s of it. Now I am just going to spread it over top my existing yard, correct? Then seed? How long do I wait to fertilize? Do I need the straw? How thick should I spread it it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Spread the soil out, rototill into existing soil if desired, seed for a NEW lawn, and cover with your choice of straw or penn mulch. I suggest the penn mulch but it isn't my yard so your call. The penn mulch can be found at Oakland Park Nursery in 40lb bags and has a starter fertilizer built into it. Water occasionally if the temperature rises, but if it stay cool just make sure that the soil is moist, not soaking wet as that will allow Pythium to damp off the seeds. The seed should emerge in 5 to 7 days. Go ahead and do the germination test now or if you are in a hurry you can do it in time with the seeding of the yard. You will need to fertilizer pretty heavy with a spring treatment after the seed has become established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Time frame it for me. I will spread the soil out tomorrow. Do I need to roll it out(stamp it down)? I want to spread the least amount needed so my yard doesnt appear higher than my neighbors. So spread out how much? Roll it? I am not planning on tilling. I have a good size tiller but I have alot of tree roots. Then seed immediatly? Cover how thick with straw or mulch? Will the cold kill new seed? I will assume that since I will be using scotts that germination wont be an issue, therefore the test wont be necessary? When should I fertilize? Thanks for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Do not roll it out, that will compact the new soil. You can let the soil sit for a couple of days and that should allow it to settle. Do you have any trees in the middle of the yard that you could use as a dome point and work out from there? gently slope the soil towards the next door neighbors yard and you shouldn't have too much problem. If you could take a pic of the yard it would help. Scotts seed should be good, but that isn't the issue, it is where you purchase it from. The major problem is that some stores in Columbus will not keep the seed from dying by doing any number of things to it. Where were you planning on going to get seed? I can recommend some places, but would rather do that via PM. You will need something to keep the seed from blowing away, ie cover, that is why I keep speaking of Penn Mulch. Fertilize after the new grass is somewhat established, the directions on the Scotts bags are pretty self explanatory. If you don't have one already, get a spreader to avoid problems such as over or under seeding/fertilizing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted March 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I was planning on buying from Home depot. I do have a huge tree right in the middle. Why do you ask? I will post a pic tomorrow. I have half of the front yard covered. I'm not sure how to measure the depth very accuratly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Okay heres the latest problem I need help with. I bought the soil and didnt get to spread it as fast as planned. Now it is all spread out but it is clumpy. Or hard as rocks. Which ever way you look at it. I have spent hours with 2 different tillers but I still cant get it broke up. I have been trying to keep it wet but it dries out way to fast. My question is this, how does the soil need to be for a good lawn? How broke up does the soil need to be. It has golf ball size pieces all throughout it. I am afraid if I plant the seed now, it will forever feel like I am walking on rocks. Any suggestions? I also found a product at andersons that incorporates seed, fertilizer, and mulch in 1 easily applied product. Anyone ever use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Rain should help some for you as far as the drying out part, but the clumps should be broken apart as much as possible. Raking them out might help, not sure without seeing the situation. Also a roller can be used after the seed has established and will help out too by smoothing the soil out, but do not worry about this until fall or next spring. It does take time to make it look good again. Keep up what you are doing and get the seed down ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I got the seed down and I am trying a new product which contains seed, mulch and fertilizer in 1. So I dont know if I should straw it to help keep the moisture in or water it 20 times a day. The product said under no circumstances should it dry out at all. And nobody in columbus has heard of penn mulch I called damn near everywhere. I am at my wits end with it. I figure at this point it will grow or it wont. And if it doesnt then I will just sod it and be done with it. It has already caused me way more headaches than it will be worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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