Got-Boost? Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Where did you get the wait info on a new M5? If you have the cash, I can get you one in 4-months.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrancesTheMute Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Since when is a 500hp 4 door sedan useless? I guess you feel the same about the new Z06 which happens to be a hot seller right now. Make like your screen name and STFU. Uhhh...when you already have a 400HP model called the CTS-V. Funny, I don't see a 4 door Z06...so how about you stfu. And no I don't feel that way about the Corvette, it's a completely different type of car. The idea is "halo effect". And Bob Lutz is the best thing to happen to GM in 20 years. They're actually starting to make cars people who don't live in the sticks actually may want to be seen in. And "rich guys toys" is a demographic GM wants to (needs to) figure out how to be a legitimate player in. I understand he's trying to market to a richer and what seems to me like "mid-life crisis" crowd here, but when you've already produced a 210, 255, and 400HP model of a car, and it's a top of the line car, $55,000 if I remember right for a CTS-V base, it just seems ridiculous to release another version which will seemingly cost you even more money to produce and which will sell less. I love the CTS and CTS-V, but I just don't see the benefit in releasing another one is. Why not put that money into trying to figure out how to get your over-priced rebadged Chevy truck to get more than 5MPG? Just a thought... But I'm a Nissan guy, so what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTS1200 Posted April 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Uhhh...when you already have a 400HP model called the CTS-V. Funny, I don't see a 4 door Z06...so how about you stfu. And no I don't feel that way about the Corvette, it's a completely different type of car. Well there's rumor of GM building a faster Z06, would you be against that as well? The point is why not build a faster car to compete with new faster cars coming from the Germans. The demographic that GM is targeting wants these cars, trust me. I'm in it. You refer to this car as a "mid life crisis car", well your young and don't know any better. Get back with me in 15 years when you have a wife and kids and the wife finds any car with two seats too impractical to own. You'll look at that car in a totally different way. Oh and btw sorry for the STFU comment, I was a little surly late last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrancesTheMute Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Well there's rumor of GM building a faster Z06, would you be against that as well? The point is why not build a faster car to compete with new faster cars coming from the Germans. The demographic that GM is targeting wants these cars, trust me. I'm in it. You refer to this car as a "mid life crisis car", well your young and don't know any better. Get back with me in 15 years when you have a wife and kids and the wife finds any car with two seats too impractical to own. You'll look at that car in a totally different way. Oh and btw sorry for the STFU comment, I was a little surly late last night. A faster Z06? I'm not opposed to that merely because the Z06 is a performance car, it's not your run of the mill everyday car. It's sold specifically as a high hp 2 door sports car. I may be young and not know better, but I just can't say I agree with building a 500+ HP car when you have other money issues more important. I don't know the profit/loss numbers for the Corvette and the CTS, but I'd think that the Z06 sells more than enough to make up for the cost it takes to produce. I just don't see this new CTS doing the same. My dad is also in this market, and being an engineer and car guy, even he looks at this and goes "Who the fuck came up with this idea?!" That's just the way I see things, I'd love to have a CTS-V, I just find this new one to be impractical. As for the STFU comment, big deal, it's the internet, if I didn't have someone telling me to STFU at least once a day on some site somewhere, I'd think the world was ending. No biggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Fewer people would be buying Nissans, Toyotas, or Mitsubishis today (the 30-somethings) without the 300zx, Supra, and 3000GT of before. The halo effect from those high dollar supercars is still rippling here ten years later where kids (and young-adults) are buying crappy (performance wise) Corollas and Sentras even still. Halo effect. GM needs that as well. They have had for the past 30 years, to date, only one halo car. The corvette. And for a big demographic that car represents Guido with gold chains and a midlife crisis. Anti-halo, if you will, for a large buying segment. (Sorry corvette guys, but for many "non-car" people that stigma is there attached to the car, don't meant to offend - now back to my point...) Now GM is trying to re-establish Cadillac as a performance/technology(?)/luxury leader (again, as in the 1930s). Whether they succeed or not I think its worth a swing at bat. GM said "We're going to play in the upscale performance sedan market". If you make that statement then you have to come ready to play. So yeah they come out of the gate with a car that wiped the floor with the then M5 and Audi and Mercedes offerings (any car that lets Jeremy from TG utterly outdrive the Stig in a hot Audi means business). Ok great. Nice opening shot. But you have to expect the competitors to respond. And when they do you don't go home with your tail between your legs "Sorry guys, I didn't mean to crash your party, I'm a one-hit-wonder. I'll be going home now. Sorry for the noise." No. You watch what they come back and make your own reply. That means when BMW releases a high dollar, limited production version of their 5 series at 500hp sedan, then you release a 500hp version as well. Second banana halo cars don't do anyone any good. And IMO they're shooting at the M5 in a way that makes sense for them. No matter what they do with interiors you're going to get the dogmatists (ala Jeremy on Top Gear) bagging on them. Even if they lined them with emeralds and cut the frame from solid magnesium. so you're not going to win that perception bias in the next ten years. But you can out-perform the other guys. Numbers are numbers and can't be argued with (except in those lame little sidebars the magazines use where the writers whine, I mean write how they liked the losing car more because of its zen spirit or espirit or some other subjective drivel). So GM sets the Super-V unequivocally as a luxury performance sedan with a heavy leaning towards performance over the luxury. Gives you an immediate response when you get the "interior sucks" kneejerk thrown in your face: "Yeah, but it out-turns, out-brakes, out-accelerates, out-topspeeds your XXXX car. Which is what we meant to do." Your words are matching your product. And voila, you're still a legitimate player competing in the high-end game with the traditional players. I don't know the profit/loss numbers for the Corvette and the CTS, but I'd think that the Z06 sells more than enough to make up for the cost it takes to produce. I just don't see this new CTS doing the same. Just the opposite in fact. The z06 uses much more exotic materials and absorbed all the R&D costs. The Vs are parts bin cars with more in common with their higher volume base car than the Z06 has in common with the base Corvette (by weight %). And GM's parts-bin, use-what-you-got, design philosophy means that R&D on said "niche" car is not taking any food away from any line worker in any GM plant. And you end up with a car that rocks that you can still take a visiting CEO to lunch in. Try that in a sports coupe... SUVs... SUVs just need to quit being made. They have no legitimate reason to exist. Or be owned. (BTW- I like how they're starting to call them "crossovers" now that SUV is a four letter word in marketing.) And who knows, in ten-twenty years maybe kids will be pimping out Vs to go wreck in mall parking lots on Saturday nights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Apex Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 And it'll still probably grenade the rear diff on launch. You rode in the base CTS or a V? If a V I'm sure a '90 Laser is giving you a good basis for an objective comparison.... . I rode in a CTS-V. A 90 Laser is not a good basis for comparing to anything. I do ride in and drive plenty of newer vehicles frequently. For a brand new car the interior made some noises, the plastic felt like cheap material that's far lower in quality than even a Camry, the chassis felt soft to me for a sport/luxury car, and the car seemed easily upset by bumps on the road. On the other had it was a fast ass car and had handled quite well as long as it was on smooth pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badzinc03 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 You have to remember its a 4 door 4000lbs. sedan. It is made by Cadillac after all so you would expect a softer suspension on a sports/LUXURY car. The one I drove seemed to have a very nice suspension. The fender flares are a bit much on the super V. My guess is they will not have two different cts-v's. The one with the ls7 will just completely replace the ls2 eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 If you think the materials in the V's interior cost less than a Camry's you have a really poor biased eye and touch. Meanwhile at the same time my colleagues (Audis, Mercedes, and BMW owners all) praise the V's interior. Some like it more than theirs. One is a CFO who owns a Jag X-type as his daily. As for getting upset by road bumps: Get more wheel time in high-powered RWD cars. Recalibrate that butt meter. The V is acknowledged to be at the top for handling, on smooth and rough roads. Personally, I've never had it get out of orientation by a road bump, and I've taken this thing over 1g lateral. Neither did it have any problem besting AWD competitors in the supercar challenge mogul slalom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-Boost? Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 I may be young and not know better, but I just can't say I agree with building a 500+ HP car when you have other money issues more important. I don't know the profit/loss numbers for the Corvette and the CTS, but I'd think that the Z06 sells more than enough to make up for the cost it takes to produce. I just don't see this new CTS doing the same. My dad is also in this market, and being an engineer and car guy, even he looks at this and goes "Who the fuck came up with this idea?!" That's just the way I see things, I'd love to have a CTS-V, I just find this new one to be impractical. If you have been on the Autobahn, you would know why there is such a high demand for these cars. People want something they can drive every day but still haul ass or go to the track on the weekends "if they want to." Why do you think the EVO, STi, etc....are so popular!?!!? Considering what some of these gas guzzling SUV/Trucks are costing these days, this car is a bargain. However, the resale value on any Cady will keep me from buying regardless of how fast it is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 I scrolled riiiight through the arguments to post that Cadillac will have a buyer once that makes it to market. My wife wanted a CTS-V. When they came out. I'm sure we'd absolutely ROCK a CTS-Thuper-V. I don't care if it squeaks like fucking tupperware. 500hp manual transmission RWD 4dr sedan PEEEIMPness!!!11!!1!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FrancesTheMute Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Just the opposite in fact. The z06 uses much more exotic materials and absorbed all the R&D costs. The Vs are parts bin cars with more in common with their higher volume base car than the Z06 has in common with the base Corvette (by weight %). And GM's parts-bin, use-what-you-got, design philosophy means that R&D on said "niche" car is not taking any food away from any line worker in any GM plant. And you end up with a car that rocks that you can still take a visiting CEO to lunch in. Try that in a sports coupe... Hmm, I never knew. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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