wnaplay1647545503 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 I wish they could make my truck get this kinda mileage. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/05/extreme-hybrid-goes-250-miles-on-gallon-of-gas/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSSon Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 But it doesn't get 250 mpg. I don't like the idea of plug in cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 But it doesn't get 250 mpg. I don't like the idea of plug in cars. why dont you like the idea of plug in cars? not trying to insult or flame just curious what your viewpoint is. i've never really had a problem with it. Anyone who has had a diesel that they plug in to keep them ready for cold winter mornings has done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 My problem with it is they're claiming 250 mpg as if they have some newfound technology that allows them to get unbelievable efficiency. But by plugging in the car they are using electricity that seems to be factored out of the environmentalists equation for efficiency. The electricity was most likely created by burning coal, which is more polluting then burning gasoline in your car. Since most Hybrid Hippies seem to live in California I'll use them as the example. California already has power distribution problems, with brownouts sometimes (hot weather) occuring frequently. What would happen to the power grid if everyone had a car plugged in and charging? Also, what do you do with the batteries when they're spent? Disposing of a battery is far more polluting then the small amount of C02 your ULEV puts out. The Hippies seem to overlook this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaSSon Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 why dont you like the idea of plug in cars? not trying to insult or flame just curious what your viewpoint is. i've never really had a problem with it. Anyone who has had a diesel that they plug in to keep them ready for cold winter mornings has done it. Read the post above this one. That energy came from someplace. And one way or another you're still paying for fuel, whether it's gas or electricity. If I had to plug a car in every night, my electric bill would be through the roof. It would prob rival what I spend on gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coty061885 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 All of those points are precisely why I'm a skeptic of all the gasoline alternatives being conjured up these days. If they can actually find a way to make "free" energy methods (wind, hydro, solar, etc.) work well then I'll be interested in this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I'm callin BS on this too, and I've got a hybrid, but plugins do have their place (in super-crowded Japan where commutes are all of 3 miles). Mallard's right that on a one-to-one fight, gas is going to beat coal every time for small engines (just like diesel is better for locomotives), but there's an economy of scale thing to consider... If you had a piddly little coal-fired generator trying to charge a plugin's batteries, the wasted energy would be enormous. But when it's a power company's multi-megawatt boiler and turbines we're talking, a plugin becomes the better choice (nevermind that storing enough energy to make it meaningful is a problem even Toyota hasn't really solved with their plug-in Prius). Most of us also live in Ohio, so we can choose to go with an (overpriced) electric supplier that uses wind/tidal/solar/cowdung if it suits us. So far, battery disposal has been pretty much a non-issue. While they're warranted for 8/80k in most cases (the Cali hippies get something like 10/150k), the first ones put out there are still working, because they're kept within a very tight charge band that doesn't really exercise them the way normal 12V car batteries are. They're not as easy to recycle as normal lead-acid battery, but it can be done. So why did I pick one over a regular car? Well, the US makers were out because I need something that doesn't break every other week (Mensan can attest to my old crate), the new tax credit makes the price differential pretty much meaningless after three or four years (I plan to keep mine about ten), and the color I liked only came in a hybrid version (AudiOn19s did a very nice detail on it soon after I got it... pic when I get the roll finished off). No tree-hugging hippiness involved in the decision, just my usual practicality. I will admit, though, that hitting the pump only half as often is nice, and flipping Dick Cheney and Halliburton the bird is icing on the cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 78novaman Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 mmrmnhrm, you seem like the kind of hybrid owner I don't mind. Most drive with thier snotty little noses in the air, but you sound really cool about it. (Of course you ARE on a racing forum.) The new hybrids are not bad since they got the idea right to make the hybrids look exactly like the regular models. The only thing I haven't figured out is why someone hasn't come out with a diesel hybrid to have the best of both worlds. The efficiency of the engine is a lot better, the same as the locomotives that were mentioned earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 The new hybrids are not bad since they got the idea right to make the hybrids look exactly like the regular models. But those aren't the ones that are selling well. The Prius has a long wait list while you can find Accords and Civics sitting on some lots. Analysts and the companies are attributing this to the fact that most people that drive hybrids want everyone to know when they see it. Toyota is actually investigating ways to make their newer hybrids look more different from regualr models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Novaman: You're right about the diesel hybrid. I'd be all over that in a cold minute. Well, ok, maybe not, since I've got no place for a block heater, the fuel would gel in winter, and I can't get diesel from the pumps at work. Though I could just raid the local McDonald's and make my own Anyways, I think the reason we're not seeing them in the US is that some of the clean air states (Cali being the most obvious) banned diesel in passenger cars because back in the 70's, they were louder, noisier, and a hell of a lot dirtier than they are now. Just a case of the laws not keeping up with the times, I guess. Mallard: If you didn't notice, I generally take a dim view of analysts (especially stock market ones). The only way you could tell my hybrid Civic from a regular one if you didn't know about the paint color was the hybrid badge on the trunk and the pie-plate hub caps. If you don't know what to look for, it's indistinguishable from the non-hybrid, and I rather like it that way. It keeps people from badgering me with all sorts of stupid questions. Not sure where you'll find a Civic on the lot (I had to wait three extra months for mine cause I couldn't stand the cloudy-sky paint with cream seats, which would still have been a two-week delivery), but you're right about the Accords. From what I've heard, they're selling like a sick dog because instead of jacking up the mileage like they did with Civic, Honda tuned the electrics for performance. The enviro-snobs take a pass because of that, while the suburbanite family with 2.3 children gets the Odyssey instead. It's a great proof-of-concept, but a bad marketing call. As for Toyota... I dunno how they can make the Prius look much more different than it already is. Thing sticks out even more than the H3 I saw this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chpmnsws6 Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 The only thing I haven't figured out is why someone hasn't come out with a diesel hybrid to have the best of both worlds. Diesels are still harder to fire up and shut down then a gasser. Give it a few years with the diesel world advancing how it is (10x faster then gas) and you'll see them..... And when you do, know that its helping my checkbook get a little bit larger (future diesel tech haha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 250mpg is impossible. A gasoline engine is only about 40% efficient. Even if the engine used some crazy technology like rotary cams or something, and managaed to jump efficiency to a realistic figure of like 60% or 70% (thats a stretc but we'll go with it), to make 250mpg with that technology, the same engine would need to make 175mpg with standard technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Novaman: You're right about the diesel hybrid. I'd be all over that in a cold minute. Well, ok, maybe not, since I've got no place for a block heater, the fuel would gel in winter, and I can't get diesel from the pumps at work. Though I could just raid the local McDonald's and make my own Anyways, I think the reason we're not seeing them in the US is that some of the clean air states (Cali being the most obvious) banned diesel in passenger cars because back in the 70's, they were louder, noisier, and a hell of a lot dirtier than they are now. Just a case of the laws not keeping up with the times, I guess. US diesel has a higher sulfer content then in Eroupe, preventing a lot of the new diesels from coming here. You will see that change in 2008-09. There are already a few deisels slated for the US in 08. Mallard: If you didn't notice, I generally take a dim view of analysts (especially stock market ones). The only way you could tell my hybrid Civic from a regular one if you didn't know about the paint color was the hybrid badge on the trunk and the pie-plate hub caps. And your front grill is different, but it's subtle. The analysts that talk about this aren't market guys, they're industry guys trying to explain why the Prius is a lot hotter then others. When polling Prius buyers why they're waiting so long when they could go over to Honda and drive a car off the lot that day they usually say, "We want to make a statement." Most of the Prius owners (IMO) are the yuppie-hippie types that want to be trendy and want everyone to see them in the car, instead of buying it for better gas milege in the city. ... I dunno how they can make the Prius look much more different than it already is. Thing sticks out even more than the H3 I saw this afternoon. I think they're talking more about future models, like the Camry hybrid. Seeing sales of the Prius vs. the Accord has them worried that they'll be sitting on lots longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Hybrids. The leading cause of smug, lol. I thought that South Park episode was a joke. I didn't know it was a fact, though it doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't mind a hybrid civic/accord. I wouldn't want people knowing it was a hybrid either, but there's no way in hell I'd drive a Prius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 US diesel has a higher sulfer content then in Eroupe, preventing a lot of the new diesels from coming here. Thought we already had that problem licked. Well, at least diesel made from waste deep-fry grease doesn't have the sulfur problem, you just smell like a fast food joint going down the street Most of the Prius owners (IMO) are the yuppie-hippie types that want to be trendy and want everyone to see them in the car, instead of buying it for better gas milege in the city. A fair conclusion, though again, I know someone who bought one for reasons similar to mine. Only he's got the advantage of being about 6" shorter than I, so he was able to fit in the thing. Seeing sales of the Prius vs. the Accord has them worried that they'll be sitting on lots longer. As long as they don't tune for performance instead of mileage like Honda did, the Camry ought to do fine. The guy at Tansky's was trying to get me to hold off on my Civic to see if I'd fit in it, but I just couldn't stand the crate any longer. I thought that South Park episode was a joke. Heh, decidedly not. Why do you think the Cali types are submitting their HOV stickers before they even get the car delivered? South Park... Holding a mirror to the world and showing everyone just how stupid and hypocritical they are. Isaac Hayes (Chef) in particular... you can make fun of any religion you want, but you dare not touch Scientology, because we really ARE decendents of UFO visitors (or something... loonies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismindless Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 On the issues of free energy, we already have an abundant supply of energy, enough to power the entire world ... look up, its the sun. All we would need is 300 km^2 of solar panels at the best efficency we have now (~25%) and we could supply enough energy for the entire world ... the arrays located within 11.75 deg of the equator would be in prime absorbation territory .. but why 11.75? the earth is at a 23 deg tilt and because of that sees 46 deg of movement of the sun ... the middle 23 deg see the optimal amount of sunlight so 11.75 deg from the equator is the best region to put them ... next put them in places with the best weather patterns. least cloud cover, etc. 300 km^2 is a big area, with 1 m^2 of solar panels costing roughly $2,000 of the most efficent type. 300,000^2 x 2000 (dollars) = 18 x 10^13 dollars .. that would be $180,000,000,000,000 ... 180 trillion dollars ... which at this moment in time is a lot of money ... when solar panels are cheaper, than maybe a more practical solution but as of now ... who really knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismindless Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 or if more efficent than the we wouldnt need as many panels ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 You realize, of course, that the tree huggers will find something wrong with that plan, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGRE Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 About diesels: about winter gelling. If you buy good fuel (diesel II) that is sold in the winter months you will not have a problem with gelling unless you live in northern canada. I drive a 200k mi. N/A diesel in the winter, with no block heater, I know. Also new Turbo diesel cars don't come with block heaters, they don't need them, We aren't going to see -40*F in ohio any time soon. About Vegi oil, great idea, but a Grease car has to run dual tanks. One for diesel and one for the oil with a heater on it. This is because cooking oil is not fluid enough to be used untill it reaches 180*F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 About Vegi oil, great idea, but a Grease car has to run dual tanks. One for diesel and one for the oil with a heater on it. This is because cooking oil is not fluid enough to be used untill it reaches 180*F. That's if you intend to run SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil). I'm talking biodiesel. With just a little bit of time and practice, you can make it safely at home (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html), and interchangeably with the diesel you get at gas stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Why are hybrids always so ugly Because it took the Japanese to come up with them, and their cars live in some sort of strange fashion warp. That's my theory, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coty061885 Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I mean why can't they just look like normal cars instead of an aurora with ebay headlight cover stickers I think the newer hybrid cars look pretty decent. The new Camry one, in particular. It doesn't look a whole lot different from the regular version. If I were to buy a hybrid, I'd get the Accord Hybrid. It's actually quicker than the non-hybrid due to the large amount of torque from the electric motor. Other than that, most hybrids are quite ugly (i.e. Insight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 78novaman Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 The Ford Escape hybid (which is a POS) looks exactly like the regular Escape (which is a POS too). The Civics & Accords are about the same too. Lexus's SUV hybrids are hard to pick out too. The new diesel technology makes winter a non-issue for small engines. If hybrid technology was put in a Mustang/Camaro type of car so I can have a 300hp car that gets 35mpg I would buy that in a heartbeat. Toyota seems to be on the right path with thier program. You can get a Lexus hybird SUV that performs better than the gas version & gets better milage that has minimal cosmetic differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmrmnhrm Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Well, like I put back in #10, unless you know what to look for (the 'hybrid' badge and pie-plate hubcaps being the most obvious), you can't tell the difference between my Civic and an EX without the moonroof. The Insight? That comes from the fashion warp area I theorized about in #22. Maybe we can send them Mesteno's Ford redhead as a tutor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.