Why not to take the bus.....

[magley64]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html

and i thought canucs were supposed to be non-violent

[ninjachk08]

wow...its sad soo many people had to see that.. and for that innocent man to go through that.

i hope that f*er gets the death penalty!!

[ousley99]

That is fukd up that people are soo crazy! all the more reason to have a ccw

[redbarron77]

it's canada, no death penalty....I say stoning should be brought back!

[12oclocker]

thats why more citizens need to carry guns. someone could have blown that crazy guys head off and been a hero, maybe saving the stab victom, and ensuring the safety of everyone else on the bus!

[redbarron77]

thats why more citizens need to carry guns. someone could have blown that crazy guys head off and been a hero, maybe saving the stab victom, and ensuring the safety of everyone else on the bus!

[RC51 John]

thats why more citizens need to carry guns. someone could have blown that crazy guys head off and been a hero, maybe saving the stab victom, and ensuring the safety of everyone else on the bus!

It's Canada no guns.

[Big Chief201]

Fucked up.... could you imagine him coming to the front of the bus all bloody and carrying the head of that guy... wow just wow

[kawi kid]

wow holding the head up and taunting the police with it........

[redbarron77]

One bullet to the head - $1.50

Years of rehabilitation/incarceration - $30K/year

Does anyone see a math problem here?

[fusion]

Pansies on the bus let him stab the guy over and over in the chest and didn't try to stop him?

[Disclaimer]

Call 'em pansies, but unless you're Chuck Norris, most people don't wake up in the morning expecting to have to be a hardass hero and disarm a crazy knife wielding maniac.

The problem is groupthink - one guy hurries off the bus, the rest follow suit. Easy, no-brain option - run away from danger. If someone would've gotten up to disarm the guy (the more risky proposition) then it's a crap shoot whether the crowd on the bus would've helped to disarm the guy or if they would've just watch, horrified, as this guy cut up TWO men - inevitably escalating the situation.

"Who wants to be the next hero?! Huh!?"

[redbarron77]

Pansies on the bus let him stab the guy over and over in the chest and didn't try to stop him?

very few people expect something like this to happen, so they are not trained for it. I know what I am capable of, and what I would have done in the situation. it's tough to fault them for their reaction.

unfortunately we live in a society that expects everyone to be civilized and NOT do this kind of shit, so law abiding citizens have to sit around and wait to be victims. even non-lethal weapons (tazers, side-handled batons, even a phucking walking stick) can get you into trouble for just having them.

Also, if the attacker is completely fucking whacked, then in a one-on-one, they have the advantage.

[rockstarhonda]

Where in the hell do these people come from. and I agree with ousley99, I think people would start thinking things through a little more if you knew there is a possibility that someone might have a gun and will shoot you if you start acting a fool

[fusion]

sorry I have no problem faulting these people. Given that there were like 35 other people on the bus and this guy was obviously occupied to some extent with his victim they should have been able to easily distract and disable the attacker.

Even my wife when she was 19-20 had the courage to pull her hair spray out of her bag and spray a man in his face that was wildly beating his infant child. She had no training, but she found a way to make him stop while she called for help.

My oldest when around the 3rd grade(8 at the time) had no problem taking down a large 13 yo (almost twice his size) who was on top of and pounding on a kid much smaller than he was. Even at that age he didn't hesitate, he saw someone in trouble and helped.

There's no excuse when you out number an assailant with those numbers even on a bus. Knife or not, someone or a combination of them had the means to stop him.

As for weapons (lethal or otherwise) you should never rely on them. You never count on a baton, cane, knife or gun for self defense. Not enough people train real self defense, adding tools later, after learning and training to deal with situations unarmed. I will add that I have no problems with people carrying CCW in conjunction with this.

[fusion]

Call 'em pansies, but unless you're Chuck Norris, most people don't wake up in the morning expecting to have to be a hardass hero and disarm a crazy knife wielding maniac.

The problem is groupthink - one guy hurries off the bus, the rest follow suit. Easy, no-brain option - run away from danger. If someone would've gotten up to disarm the guy (the more risky proposition) then it's a crap shoot whether the crowd on the bus would've helped to disarm the guy or if they would've just watch, horrified, as this guy cut up TWO men - inevitably escalating the situation.

"Who wants to be the next hero?! Huh!?"

What does the front of him look like? Was he saving someone by defending them with his back?

[Disclaimer]

That pic was just for effect... has nothing to do with this case. It was just a picture of a guy cut up pretty bad from someone with a knife.

But what does it matter what the front looked like?? In a fight or scuffle, you could get cut anywhere. Just wondering if you had a point to make regarding whether you're cut in front or cut in back. Also, with as selfish as people are, I don't know too many people who'd trade being disfigured the rest of their life, to save some stranger.

Kinda like what redbarron said though... you have no clue what the mental deficiency of this guy was. It's one think if he just snapped, but if he's coked up or on heroin - they don't feel pain, which does not bode well for the would-be heroes when attempting to gain control of the situation.

[fusion]

That pic was just for effect... has nothing to do with this case. It was just a picture of a guy cut up pretty bad from someone with a knife.

But what does it matter what the front looked like?? In a fight or scuffle, you could get cut anywhere. Just wondering if you had a point to make regarding whether your cut in front or cut in back.

Kinda like what redbaron said though... you have no clue what the mental deficiency of this guy was. It's one think if he just snapped, but if he's coked up or on heroin - they don't feel pain, which does not bode well for the would-be heroes when attempting to gain control of the situation.

So you couldn't link real support for your argument so you pulled a photo of a victim that lived (did someone help him?) without a back story. Someone helping another person would be facing an assailant, so you expect a number of defense wounds to areas like face, arms, chest... if he were to get cut up. Cuts only to the back looks like someone was attacked from behind, was running from someone when they got knifed or ended up face down after a struggle before their attacker pulling or using a knife.

Then again that guy in the picture could be an attacker that was cut up while he was trying to go after someone else.

The point is helping someone who is being attacked. Sure you might get hurt in the process and the guy might be on drugs or out of control mental, but you at least tried to help save someone's life.

[redbarron77]

...

The point is helping someone who is being attacked. Sure you might get hurt in the process and the guy might be on drugs or out of control mental, but you at least tried to help save someone's life.

Don't get me wrong. I know what my reaction would have been, refer to my training statement(been in martial arts since the age of 10....significant belts in Judo, AOK Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Tomiki Aikido, and CCW). I would have attempted to take this guy out, and probably ended up getting cut(anyone who has been in a knife fight will expect to be cut in the next one!) Those people had no clue what to do(based upon their actions/inaction).

Is it justified for them to say he might have been(on drugs/crazy/insane)? maybe.

I was more commenting on the pathetic state the world is in when people who are prepared for some confrontation like this (i.e. - training, subduing weapons, etc) are labeled and chastised.

[Disclaimer]

I don't have a real photo to link, or I would've - but that image I found was graphic enough wasn't it? You want a link to rotten.com and you can look at some real cut up victims? Here's the original link from where that picture DID come from (along with the backstory) http://alanpetersnewsbriefs.blogspot.com/2007/11/ignorance-denial-will-result-in.html

But if you want to start making assumptions and what-ifs about the imagery (sure, it's possible that guy could've been an attacker), I could do the same with the entire news story.

What if you risked your life to save a drug dealer? Who's to say the 'victim' wasn't also a criminal of sorts? What if someone ended up dead trying to save the life of a criminal? That's why I said stranger - you have no clue what his background is... granted, this is all hypothetical, but seriously, people need to contemplate actions and the cost/benefit before they act careless.

[fusion]

I don't have a real photo to link, or I would've - but that image I found was graphic enough wasn't it? You want a link to rotten.com and you can look at some real cut up victims? Here's the original link from where that picture DID come from (along with the backstory) http://alanpetersnewsbriefs.blogspot.com/2007/11/ignorance-denial-will-result-in.html

But if you want to start making assumptions and what-ifs about the imagery (sure, it's possible that guy could've been an attacker), I could do the same with the entire news story.

What if you risked your life to save a drug dealer? Who's to say the 'victim' wasn't also a criminal of sorts? What if someone ended up dead trying to save the life of a criminal? That's why I said stranger - you have no clue what his background is... granted, this is all hypothetical, but seriously, people need to contemplate actions and the cost/benefit before they act careless.

and those photos would still not be relevant to the discussion.

You're right we could 'what if' all day long.. It's safer to just run away and let them die, you know, just in case.

[Disclaimer]

It's safer to just run away and let them die, you know, just in case.

That's my point... I know you may've meant it in a sarcastic tone, but think about it - that is the SAFEST course of action. It may not be the most ethical, most brave, or even the right course of action - but it's the safest.

You also mentioned your wife and kid and how they chose to intervene instead of walk away. Bravo to them, I'm glad everything turn out ok, but as long as we're discussing what-ifs....what-if your son was pushed to the ground and it knocked his head hard enough to cause permanent brain damage or swelling that put him into a coma? Yea, he did the right thing, but it would've affected the rest of his life, and yours, and his mother's. I mean, would that have really been worth it, and would you've been able to accept the consequences of his actions being his father?

Like I said, there is a difference between the socially ethical or "right" course of action and the best/safest course of action in a dramatic situation like that.

[magley64]

I have no clue how i'd handle a situation like that...

seems so surreal...

i'd like to think i'd go find something to use as a club, and knock the offender out with it, but until you're in a situation like that, how do you know how you'll react?

[fusion]

That's my point... I know you may've meant it in a sarcastic tone, but think about it - that is the SAFEST course of action. It may not be the most ethical, most brave, or even the right course of action - but it's the safest.

You also mentioned your wife and kid and how they chose to intervene instead of walk away. Bravo to them, I'm glad everything turn out ok, but as long as we're discussing what-ifs....what-if your son was pushed to the ground and it knocked his head hard enough to cause permanent brain damage or swelling that put him into a coma? Yea, he did the right thing, but it would've affected the rest of his life, and yours, and his mother's. I mean, would that have really been worth it, and would you've been able to accept the consequences of his actions being his father?

Like I said, there is a difference between the socially ethical or "right" course of action and the best/safest course of action in a dramatic situation like that.

What if he gets hit by a car riding his bike? What if he gets hurt on his dirtbike? What if he falls down the stairs? Maybe I should never let him outside or even up stairs. Oh man my kids are out at camp this week and there are ravines, wild animals, climbing walls and all sorts of potential for serious injury...maybe I should run out and bring them home.

Wow if I would think twice about him doing something as good and important as trying to save or help another even at the risk of injuring himself, I probably shouldn't let him doing anything that just isn't necessary and could possibly result in him (them) getting injured.

[Disclaimer]

I'm not saying you should shelter your kids, or advocating it. It's a CHOICE to intervene into a dangerous situation. All the things you listed are more or less accidents. Yea, it's a choice to ride a bike or go to camp, but you don't do it with the intention of a confrontation with another person. That's a major difference in my book.