welfare drug test

[Casper]

I got this random email today. I have no idea who it came from, nor do I recognize anyone it was addressed to. However, it doesn't seem like spam. It seems like a really good fucking idea, so I thought I'd post it up:

 

Like a lot of folks in this state I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them?? Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sitting on their butt. Could you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?????

[ImUrOBGYN]

Hmm, seems to make pretty good sense. Kind of a weird random spam mail, though.

[HotCarl]

But, doesn't it cost money to administer the drug tests' themselves? Which would intern possibly raise our taxes. On the other hand, the money the state saves from not providing welfare to people who dont pass the test would probably MORE than make up for the extra cost of the tests themselves. I think its a good idea.

[Earl1647545488]

Interesting read, never thought about it that way. I'm all for it.

[thorne]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/04/10/879/80591

 

Saddly struct down, See I'm torn If weed was left off I would be cool with the law, I mean its safer then alky. But I also dont want some druggy spending my money on crack.

 

http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/testing/10757res20030415.html

^ This helped take that law down^

 

Just some food for thought.

[Lustalbert]

From the ACLU site:

"A positive result in a drug test does not necessarily identify a drug problem."

 

Do you have a prescription for the drug we found?

No?

That is a problem. Something that the rest of us might call "breaking the law"

 

 

I have no problem with someone who does a little recreational smoking for thier own personal pleasure. As long as they have been productive and are funding thier own pleasure. If you are rolling up my paychecks and getting a buzz at my expense, I have a very real prolem.

 

As far as booze and smokes, in theory foodstamps can not be used to purchase tabacco or alcohol, but some how it still happens. Maybe a little more reformation would clean up this problem, but that is a subjecto for a seperate thread.

[HAOLE]

I think it is a great idea!!!

 

Smoke your stash on your own dime not mine!!!

[FormulaMatt]

From the ACLU site:

"A positive result in a drug test does not necessarily identify a drug problem."

 

Do you have a prescription for the drug we found?

No?

That is a problem. Something that the rest of us might call "breaking the law"

 

I have no problem with someone who does a little recreational smoking for their own personal pleasure. As long as they have been productive and are funding their own pleasure. If you are rolling up my paychecks and getting a buzz at my expense, I have a very real problem.

 

+1 As perfect as it can be said.

[Science Abuse]

I think it is a great idea!!!

 

Smoke your stash on your own dime not mine!!!

+1, hail Satan for bringing this idea here.

 

Ben, looks like you need to write a bill, better get on that.

[Kevin R.]

I think in reality the resources used might equal out to be the same cost.

 

Such as, if they fail, how many times do they get to retake the test? How many times do they need to retake the test? They could just quit smokin, shootin', whatever, and go take the test like people do at jobs. Then begin to get their checks and keep on doin' what they were doing.

 

In order to actually watch over who is receiving welfare I think would need a lot of resources. i.e. people to administor the tests, people to pay for them, people to keep track of the tests and send out letters to re-take tests, what if they miss another test? stop the checks?.

 

I think it is more complicated then come pass a test and it will weed out who doesn't deserve it.

[99ta]

they should have to pay for their own drug test so it won't come out of the states pocket. $4.50 to pick up your check. If you fail, you don't get paid. But think about all the starving, innocent children that will be affected by that. to me its a no win situation.

 

Eric

[Kevin R.]

they should have to pay for their own drug test so it won't come out of the states pocket. $4.50 to pick up your check. If you fail, you don't get paid. But think about all the starving, innocent children that will be affected by that. to me its a no win situation.

 

Eric

 

Word. You have to remember it wouldn't just be the deadbeat druggy parents not receiving this money. You can guess who the first people to not eat in the family will be.

[ImUrOBGYN]

they should have to pay for their own drug test so it won't come out of the states pocket. $4.50 to pick up your check. If you fail, you don't get paid. But think about all the starving, innocent children that will be affected by that. to me its a no win situation.

 

Eric

 

Also, a good point. I'm going to share a bit here. As a child who grew up on foodstamps and welfare with a mother (and for awhile a step-dad) who were also heavy alcoholics and drug users, we would've been screwed without help. Let me elaborate by saying that my parents didn't drink or do drugs on the job, they worked for their money; we just never had enough, but doesn't change the fact that they did have addiction problems and serious home-life issues. And those with addictions don't think clearly and they would've lost any help they got due to being unable to stop abusive habits. I say abusive habits because, let's be honest, many of the same people who point their fingers at drug abusers, blow their money on alcohol, otc and prescription drugs, gambling, prostitution, home f'n shopping network, illegal street racing , to name a few.

It is a no-win situation. Can some compromise be made? Maybe. The problem is you can never implement something with perfection on this large a scale. There are just too many possibilities and things you don't see right away. It's easy to stand outside the situation and make judgement. To understand another man you have to walk a mile in his shoes. No truer thing has ever been said*. But you can never truly do this because it's almost impossible for people to share every belief or to have experienced or been subjected to all the same things that person has. Because of this, it's even harder to make fair decisions and rules. I've at least seen things from both sides of the fence. I've lived at the bottom and I've lived pretty good; I've had rich friends, "ghetto" friends; lived in a trailers birds wouldn't nest in, and lived the 'OC life' in Orange county, California. I've lived some serious extremes I won't even get into here. I've learned not to be so judgemental. That's one of the most important things you can learn in your life. That, and a little acceptance. You don't have to agree with someone and you may never completely understand them, but if you can keep from judging them and maybe learn to try to accept them, you'd be suprised at the affect it will have on your life.

 

Ok, I gotta tad off topic there and now I've gone and used up all my typing for the week, too.

 

 

 

*(Statement made for impact. Many things have been said that are just as true.)

[cptn janks]

"A positive result in a drug test does not necessarily identify a drug problem."

 

Do you have a prescription for the drug we found?

No?

That is a problem.

 

 

 

Additionally, drug testing does not differentiate between drug use and drug abuse. A positive result in a drug test does not necessarily identify a drug problem.

 

 

okay... so someone is on welfare. they dont do coke, crack or smack...

 

maybe they go to a little party or something on a saturday night and some ppl there are smoking a joint. they hit it a few times, have a few brews and then walk home...

 

 

then SURPRISE they have a drug test at the welfare office on monday.

 

now they cant get assistance, because they are a "drug addict" and they can be denied assistance for LIFE.

 

that law was struck down, because it was a violation of the fourth amendment. its an unreasonable search and seizure, without probable cause.

 

if they have reason to believe you are on drugs, then test away. but being poor and black is not probable cause.

 

denying someone assistance for life because they smoked a joint at a party is just about as bad as the law that says if you are convicted of ANY drug offense, you cant get FAFSA.

 

 

Smoke your stash on your own dime not mine!!!

 

rule 1: dont get high on your own supply

[Lustalbert]

Never said anything about black or white. Just a good random sampling. Once a year when you go in to get your check, you will be screened. Random date. Maybe we will hit you on the first, then hit you on the 15th so both years are taken care of at once.If you know this is a posibility, and you go to a party and get toked the night before you go to get your check, bad call, you pay for it.

Also, if you are unemployed, why are you going to parties instead of looking for a job?

[Kevin R.]

Never said anything about black or white. Just a good random sampling. Once a year when you go in to get your check, you will be screened. Random date. Maybe we will hit you on the first, then hit you on the 15th so both years are taken care of at once.If you know this is a posibility, and you go to a party and get toked the night before you go to get your check, bad call, you pay for it.

Also, if you are unemployed, why are you going to parties instead of looking for a job?

 

Yes. But once again the most effected by welfare will be the kids.

 

Why are they not looking for jobs?

Well, who knows. Some people are just lazy.

 

Why going to parties instead of looking for a job?

Who would be going to the party or doing drugs? The parents.

The kids will be effects by this the most. Some parents just don't give a fuck and if money stops coming in the kids will be the last ones to eat.

 

Now, you could say that if they fail the test and receive no welfare they have a certain time to get a job or the kids will get taken. But, this just creates more problems and more money will just be needed in another area.

 

I just find it to be an all around problem when you take into account those effected secondary by people not receiving this money.

[Mr. Jones]

Never said anything about black or white. Just a good random sampling. Once a year when you go in to get your check, you will be screened. Random date. Maybe we will hit you on the first, then hit you on the 15th so both years are taken care of at once.If you know this is a posibility, and you go to a party and get toked the night before you go to get your check, bad call, you pay for it.

Also, if you are unemployed, why are you going to parties instead of looking for a job?

 

Precisely.

 

If my employer does a drug does and I test positive for pot. I lose my job.

They don't look into my history or provide a questionnaire to see if I have a drug "PROBLEM". IT IS ILLEGAL END OF STORY. We should somehow make special exceptions for the magical "protected people" ?

 

My tax dollars are paying for these parasites. If they even take a single puff of anything on my dime they should be out on the streets. Let them be hungry and get a job.

[Lustalbert]

The kids.

Are you in favor of letting these people that spend the money on drugs continue to recive a check becuase they have kids? The tought of them using thier kids as a human shild on thier income stream is sickening. If they are getting high on my dime, and I am already paying to raise thier children, perhaps they should be moved to a better home with better infuances, such as a foster home. Foster parents need to pass a background check, and as far as I know are subject to random visits so the welfare of the children is verified.

[351mach11647545510]

i agree whole heartedly but if u fail the test u dont get help for not a for life thing but maybe you cant qualify for 6 months or possibly a year. something like that.

[thorne]

The kids is not a good enough excuse, Guesse what if that person tested for lets choose one of the hard drugs. Crack, that money is not going to the kids period. They probaly already stolen 7 car stereos to pay the dope man.

 

I've got a very educated buddy who went down the crack path. He stole money from his retired parents. His kids where neglected (Grandama/pa took care of that thought). It took allot for him to get that monkey off his back.

 

The big thing I worry about is the BIG BROTHER effect. Look at how the patriot act got abused. We are not talking about little things, This was 1000's of americans unlawfuly spied on. Thats not cool. BTW I've yet to hear about 1 terrorist they stopped because of it. If we knew that giving the goverment this power would not cause them to push it further then I'm for it.

 

I would prefer to see a FSA type of welfare solution. Think super food stamps, You can use them for rent/power/food thats it. Then again poeple have been abusing food stamps for a long time. But it would weed out allot of this.

 

As for Beavis's Comment regarding a random piss drop. I don't know how verizon is but Every place I've ever worked for, Would force you to got rehab.Then piss clean again in 45-90 days. When I worked at the ISP one of the guys that worked there went through it. At the city same thing, atleast 2 drivers went through it.

[cptn janks]

Never said anything about black or white. Just a good random sampling. Once a year when you go in to get your check, you will be screened. Random date. Maybe we will hit you on the first, then hit you on the 15th so both years are taken care of at once.If you know this is a posibility, and you go to a party and get toked the night before you go to get your check, bad call, you pay for it.

 

but thats why the law was struck down by that court. it violated the fourth amendment.

 

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

the courts have already deemed that manditory drug testing is considered a search. additionally, the courts have already ruled that most drug testing programs can only be imposed if they serve special needs like public saftey.

 

the michigan law was struck down because the court ruled it violated the fourth amendment and said "upholding suspicionless drug testing would set a dangerous precedent. Drug testing under these circumstances must satisfy a special need, and that need must concern public safety"

 

im not in total disagreement with the law, i just think that it needs to be tweaked a bit. people with prior drug convictions should definetly be tested.

 

Also, if you are unemployed, why are you going to parties instead of looking for a job?

 

nice red herring.

 

welfare is not unemployment. they are two different things completley. the original post did not really clearly describe whether it was talking about unemployment benefits, or welfare programsn.

 

welfare is means-based. unemployment isnt. also, to get unemployment, you have to usually be unemployed through no fault of your own (i.e. laid off). there are a multitude of reasons that one may not be employed. disability, lack of education, lack of need for laborers.

 

in ohio you cant get benefits if you have income that exceeds the amount for the assistance group size. per my understanding, you CAN have a job and still get welfare, but your income cant exceed whatever bracket for however many you have in your family. IE single mother with one kid and a job may not be eligible. however a single mother with 4 kids and a mcjob may be eligible.

 

anyway, back to your ingoratio elenchi, even if you dont have a job, its irrational to belive that a person would spend TWENTY FOUR HOURS of each day looking for a job.

[cptn janks]

Foster parents need to pass a background check, and as far as I know are subject to random visits so the welfare of the children is verified.

 

just FYI many states have an annual examination of a recipient’s operations and records in order to determine whether or not the recipient complied with laws and regulations applicable to the assistance received.

[Guest Mushijobah]

Great idea....I have seen our welfare system go towards wrong first hand.

[Jeffrey]

So taking a piss test in order to get a job is in no way a violation of the 4th amendment? Your employer has no reason to ever believe you are a drug user yet in order to get the job you have to pass their drug test, wouldn't that be unconstitutional. I don't see how its ok for them to do it, but to get public assistance using our tax dollars it is unconstitutional. Hmmm my income (military) is paid for using tax dollars, but I have to take random drug test, so you can't use the argument that because it is a government funded program that it would be unconstitutional to test them, I was tested over 10 times last year in random test. I am a huge anti-supporter of our highly and grossly abused welfare program.

[Mr. Jones]

So taking a piss test in order to get a job is in no way a violation of the 4th amendment? Your employer has no reason to ever believe you are a drug user yet in order to get the job you have to pass their drug test, wouldn't that be unconstitutional. I don't see how its ok for them to do it, but to get public assistance using our tax dollars it is unconstitutional. Hmmm my income (military) is paid for using tax dollars, but I have to take random drug test, so you can't use the argument that because it is a government funded program that it would be unconstitutional to test them, I was tested over 10 times last year in random test. I am a huge anti-supporter of our highly and grossly abused welfare program.

 

 

+1

 

Its truly amazing how low we have gone. We have hard working people scrimping and saving and hoping to make a better life for themselves and their children.

Meanwhile we have the welfare queen with 6 kids in line with the 7th on the way, taking the taxi home that the above family is paying for.

 

Want welfare?

 

1. Pass drug screening

 

2. Get neutered

 

3. Continue to pass regular drug screening tests until your term expires. 6/12months

 

4. Get a JOB or go hungry.

 

 

 

*Awaits the haterade to come pouring down*