Sold car - need legal advice

[blue98ls1]

Basically its like this. Almost 1 1/2 to 2 years ago I had a 1969 Torino Cobra. I sold it to a guy in PA for about $5600. Which was a great price or so I am told. He paid cash for the car. The car had a 428CJ engine in it, or at least that is to the best of my knowledge. I have pictures of the engine and it does say 428CJ on it. I also have a papper from ford detailing everything the car originally had as I was going to restore it, but it never happened.

 

My father and Uncle had built this car up specifically for drag racing. I got the car shortly before my uncle had passed away. (my dad passed away a long time ago). This car was in my family for at least 20-25 years.

 

I had it listed on ebay once, it was listed "as-is" because the car needed quite a bit of work. And it is an old car. It was drivable and I did drive it for a while, but wasnt really ment to be driven on the road. When I did drive it, it was more or less to take the car to show someone or have it worked on. I quit driving it when the 3 carbs started leaking, I had 2 of the 3 rebuilt, and was going to have the 3ed done but sold it before I did so.

 

A guy had contacted me after the ebay auction had ended, I had someone else interested in the car first and he backed out of the deal because it needed some body work.

 

I then contacted the guy that did end up buying it. He came to see it and inspect it, I started the car for him, he looked the engine over and the rest of the car over. He gave me a deposit on the car and hand wrote out a contract saying he gave me that much money for the 1969 Torino Cobra and listed the VIN #. He also stated that the car was not drivable.

 

He was able to drive the car onto the trailor when he picked it up though.

 

I received an Email from this guy that bought the car 6 months or so ago, stating that he was going to redo the engine on it this winter and so on. A friendly email and I didn't think too much of it. He did ask me though at that time if I was sure it had a 428CJ in it. I told him "I am pretty sure it does, everyone I have ever talked to regarding the car, that has ever worked on it or worked on it many years ago, has said it has a 428CJ."

 

I received and email from this guy today, He said he pulled the engine from the car and he says that the car DOES NOT have a 428CJ engine, but has a 390 and feels that he was "short changed" in the deal. He also said that he wants to resolve this issue and will get a lawyor if necessary.

 

I never once told him it had a 428, I told him I "think" it has a 428, as thats what everyone told me. And it is what the car is suppose to have in it. I listed it on ebay this way as well, but as it has been longer than 6 months I cannot view the listing anymore. But do have all emails I have ever written this guy, and never once did I say forsure it had a 428CJ. This is why I told him to come look at the car before committing to buying it.

 

And since he has had the car this long, I dont fully know what he has done to it since he had it. He could have raced it, blown the engine, and swapped something else into it for all I know.

 

And since I did not build the car, I have no way of knowing what exactly was in it. And the 2 people that did build it are dead. I did have someone locally that worked on it that is reliable and would stand behind me on believing it did have a 428cj, as he did some research on the VIN and #'s wrote on the engine block at one point. I cannot find the email he had sent me regarding the block #'s though but will keep looking.

 

I guess my question is, should I get a lawyor and find out what can be done to resolve this issue or should I call this guy first and find out exactly what he wants to do about this issue?

 

I would not be opposed to buying the car back for the price he paid for it, but I really doubt thats what he wants to do. And right now I do not have a place to store this car, but I could come up with something if I had to.

[verse]

You said that he bought it as-is, so it doesn't matter. That's all on him for not inspecting it thoughoutly.

[dragknee66]

So he bought it THAT long ago.. and now wants to some money back lol

I would tell him to go pound sand.

[V8 Beast]

He would have to prove that you gave incorrect info to him before money changed hands. The only way you would owe him in any way shape or form is if the incorrect engine was listed on ebay, or if you told him incorrect info prior to him buying it (and he would have to prove it).

 

Dont waste your money on a lawyer. He is probably trying to scare a little bit of money out of you to help him fund his project.

[blue98ls1]

He is probably trying to scare a little bit of money out of you to help him fund his project.

 

 

I am thinking this as well.

 

It was not a cheap project car. I put a few thousand $$ into the car just to be able to drive it a little bit. I did really enjoy it though when I did get to drive it.

 

I have kept every single email back and forth to this guy since he bought the car. So I have that going for me if he does try to take me to court over whatever he thinks he could possibly get from me.

 

Plus I have the guy that worked on it I can contact if need be. And I still have the paper from Ford, and a lot of pics of the car.

[Big Steve]

When it was listed "as-is" there is not too much that can happen. His fault for not checking over thoroughly. You are fine

[87GT]

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Drewhop]

As-IS means just that. If he inspected it he can deal with it. You have no obligation to this guy.

[KillJoy]

Who knows what he has done since he took possession of it.

 

Don't sweat it.

 

:thumbup:

 

KillJoy

[g35tonv]

yea you will be fine.

[coltboostin]

You said that he bought it as-is, so it doesn't matter.

 

Yup. Ohio is an As-Is state. That means- once he takes possession, anything besides some negligence on your part (like deliberately setting the car up to fail and kill him) is on him.

 

 

He's fucked.

[baron_]

narf

[baron_]

narf

[baron_]

you're a better man than most

 

and with the older engines, it sometimes isn't too easy

pontiac motors, for example...all are the same size physically, from 326 to 455. The numbers alone tell you if it's a rare 4-bolt main or 2 bolt 180 HP 326

 

a 390 is still a big block ford - it'd look the same as a 428...only the internals would be the difference (which is why it took him so long)

 

 

I wish we could bring up the ebay ad. I always save mine when i buy a car, for these reasons.

 

If this was advertised as an original drag pack 428 cobra torino (rare and desirable) and ended up being a normal torino...there's a significant difference in value and i could see the fella being upset (6k project car vs 1k project car)

 

 

You'll notice that he wrote on the receipt, "torino cobra"

If it isn't a cobra, you're assuredly in trouble.

[blue98ls1]

you're a better man than most

 

and with the older engines, it sometimes isn't too easy

pontiac motors, for example...all are the same size physically, from 326 to 455. The numbers alone tell you if it's a rare 4-bolt main or 2 bolt 180 HP 326

 

a 390 is still a big block ford - it'd look the same as a 428...only the internals would be the difference (which is why it took him so long)

 

 

I wish we could bring up the ebay ad. I always save mine when i buy a car, for these reasons.

 

If this was advertised as an original drag pack 428 cobra torino (rare and desirable) and ended up being a normal torino...there's a significant difference in value and i could see the fella being upset (6k project car vs 1k project car)

 

 

You'll notice that he wrote on the receipt, "torino cobra"

If it isn't a cobra, you're assuredly in trouble.

 

The car is indeed a torino cobra. I know that part for a fact, because the papers ford sent me said so as did the original title to the car. (Which I gave him the original 1969 title with the car.) But I do still have the paper ford sent me. And I copied it for you all to see.

 

The car did not have a factory drag pack(at least I didnt know it if it ever did), and I did not advertise it as having one. I advertised it as being modified with aftermarket parts. It had Holley 3x2 carbs, hooker headers, air shocks on the rear to accomadate bigger tires and so on. The heads where bored .60 over on the engine and a lot of other things. All things this guy knew when he bought it. We spent a lot of time talking about this car on the phone as well as when he came to look at it. I left nothing undisclosed and told him straight up what was wrong with it and the estimate I had gotten to restore it. (The estimate to restore it I had to hear while sitting down.)

 

He even brought a nephew with him when he looked it over, and when he picked it up.

 

 

 

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x123/wannarace928/torino1.jpg

[baron_]

that's some good information

 

 

But a few things don't add up. You had the heads off, they were bored .060 over?

 

You mean the heads were milled, or the block was bored?

 

and if you had this work done, wouldn't you know if it was a 390 or 428?

 

 

It'll all eventually come down to exactly what you said about the engine...

If you were telling me you had the engine bored, heads rebuilt -etc etc etc, and that it was a 428 - i'd have a good basis to believe you (because you had the engine apart)

 

 

 

That was a pretty neat, rare car. Unfortunately...when you get into the realm of anything 'ram air', the collectors are ridiculously picky and particular......but, with good reason (the only reason he bought it was the rarity, i'd guess)

 

Contact ebay and try to get a copy of the ad that was listed - maybe they have it archived?

[blue98ls1]

that's some good information

 

 

But a few things don't add up. You had the heads off, they were bored .060 over?

 

You mean the heads were milled, or the block was bored?

 

and if you had this work done, wouldn't you know if it was a 390 or 428?

 

 

It'll all eventually come down to exactly what you said about the engine...

If you were telling me you had the engine bored, heads rebuilt -etc etc etc, and that it was a 428 - i'd have a good basis to believe you (because you had the engine apart)

 

 

 

As I stated in my original post, all of this was done by my father and Uncle. Both are dead now.

 

The information I got regarding the engine was from another relative that occasionally helped work on it and from people who had worked on it at other times. And from a friend of mine who did some work on it for me once I received the car 2 years ago.

 

This friend of mine even wrote down the block #'s and sent them to someone that he knew to find out if it was a true 428 and the information he had received back convinced him it was. I however cannot find the block #'s and information he had given me. And I am not 100% sure this friend of mine would still have this info since it has been at least 1 1/2 years since I have sold the car.

 

To the best of my knowledge the block was bored .60 over. I was told it was to the maximum without using sleeve's.

[baron_]

good luck

[blue98ls1]

Well I just found out this guy said he is getting his information based off the flywheel and he hasnt actually pulled the heads.

 

He said I could be there when he does pull them to figure out what engine it actually is.

 

The flywheel being a 390 was due to the transmission being switched out from a manual to an automatic, the automatic used wouldnt bolt up otherwise, so basically we're back to square 1.

 

So we'll see what happens. I might actually take someone with me to see the heads being pulled.

[baron_]

get the part # off the block and be done with it

all ford's are stamped with a huge, very detailed part # (if i remember correctly - i had a mach 1 for a while)

 

that part # will tell you exactly what it is

 

 

http://www.428cobrajet.org/id-block.html

i'm not reading this but you should