5 grand, 11 second DSM

[Jeffrey]

Those who knew me and my 1g AWD know that it saw numerous 5-6k launches and I NEVER had tranny problems. Sure the stock clutch took a hell of a beating but when I sold the car over 2 years after all the racing I did in that car it still had the same clutch and drove just fine as a daily. It is all in how you drive these cars and take care of them. My biggest problem with the car was rusted brake lines, other than that the car never failed me and I still regret selling it.

[hpfiend]

 

A DSM "can" be a relible 11sec when the Right parts are used and you DONT skimp out of the good things that are needed to properly get the job done.

 

And those parts would be?

 

DSMlink? Built bottom end?

 

I would also like to meet some of you and check out this event at Norwalk on Aug 17....

[hpfiend]

Discuss: This article claims you need all of this which adds to about 5,000 in addition to your DSM to run High 11s with the less than fun requirement of Race Gas, Stiff/Grabby Clutch, Laggy Turbo, Difficult to maintain speed (Lightened Flywheel), ETC....

 

My 5.0 Mustang runs this now with 93 octane, a factory clutch (King Cobra), factory driveability, and it could do it all day long with virtually no risk of drivetrain failure. (T5 possibly but I am easy on it and they are cheap and plentiful)- Low 11s are only a harder launch, pulley swap and retune away- maybe there really is no replacement for displacement? I never claimed mine was under 5 grand though-

 

quoted from dsmtuners.com

 

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Stage 2: 350-400hp

 

Once the basic upgrades have been done, it's time to start looking into larger turbos and intercoolers, as well as learning the basics of fuel tuning - as bolting on parts is only half the battle at this stage. A Stage 2 setup will cost you somewhere around $5000 for parts, assuming that you haven't performed any of the Stage 1 modifications. Again, you may be able to save money by finding used parts. A Stage 2 setup will raise power output on a 1G DSM to nearly 400hp (or more depending on the turbo upgrade and level of tuning). That can equal low 12's or possibly high 11 second 1/4 mile times on the track with 100+ octane fuel. Of course, that depends greatly on how well the car is tuned, the condition of the car, and driver skill level.

 

Step 1:

Logging Software

Before you can safely begin making fuel adjustments, you'll need to know what's going on inside the engine. Logging software will give you this data and will help you decide what fuel delivery changes are needed, how much change is needed, and at what RPM point. Though datalogging is mainly for tuning, it's also a critical tool to prevent major engine damage as well.

 

\Step 2:

Warning Meters

Along with a datalogging solution, you'll want some gauges to help monitor the engine. While dataloggers allow you to analyze data after doing some test runs, guages are easier to read while driving. An EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge and probe will allow you to monitor the exhaust temperature exiting the engine. Extremely high temps generally translate into a lean condition and can be catastrophic. You can also go with a Wideband O2 system that will allow you to monitor the air/fuel ration of your car while driving. This will tell you exactly how rich or how lean the car is running, allowing you to adjust the fuel curve accordingly.

 

Step 3:

Fuel Controller/Engine Management

In order to control the flow of fuel of the larger injectors, you'll need some form of a fuel management system. The factory system simply cannot control the changes you've made/are going to make. There are a variety of ways you can go here. The most common route is a piggy-back style computer which still uses the factory MAS in combination with a reprogrammed EPROM chip that plugs into the factory ECU. The drawback to this is that some cars didn't come with an ECU that utilizes an EPROM, making an ECU swap necessary. Another option is a stand alone fuel system which completely replaces the MAS system altogether. Stand alone systems give you much greater tuning capability, but may require more knowledge of fuel tuning than the average weekend warrior may possess. Either route you choose will allow you to run larger-than-stock fuel injectors - which will be needed very soon.

 

Step 4:

Fuel Injector Upgrade

To supply the amount of fuel needed for a larger turbo, the stock fuel injectors will need to be replaced with higher flowing units. The larger the turbo you plan on upgrading to, the larger the injectors you'll likely need. If swapping in a 16G turbo, you can get away with 550cc injectors. Most T3/T4 combos will require at least 650cc and up.

 

Step 5:

Front Mount Intercooler Kit

The stock side mount intercooler will not be able to cool the amount of air flow needed to produce 400hp or more. Thus, it will need to be swapped out for a Front Mount Intercooler. This install is pretty involved, especially if you choose a kit that routes the piping around the sides of the radiator. Most kits require some trimming of the steel bumper and some dremeling of the plastic bumper cover. Most "street" kits will do for this stage. But if more than 400hp is desired, you might want to consider a "race" kit which will have a larger core for better cooling characteristics.

 

Step 6:

Turbo Upgrade

At this point, the stock 14b turbo is running at it's max. In order to increase boost, a larger turbo is necessary. You'll need something larger than a 16G or 18G in order to achieve power levels above the 375hp mark. A Mitsubishi 20G, a Mitsu-Garrett hybrid, or a full Garrett setup will be needed for higher horsepower levels. Keep in mind that any non-Mitsu or non-Mitsu hybrid turbo (like a full Garrett) will require a special exhaust manifold, external wastegate and O2 sensor housing. This is the point where you'll have to decide what your car will be used for. The larger turbos are great for drag strip action, but not so great for road race and autocross use - something to keep in mind.

 

Performance Clutch

With more power on tap, the stock clutch probably won't last that long. It will start to slip, especially in the higher gears. This means it's time for a high performance clutch that can handle the increased horsepower.

 

Lightened Flywheel

To help your engine rev quicker, try a lightened flywheel. Most are stronger than stock, and can handle the abuse seen at the track.

 

 

Shifter Mods

If you have a 5-speed tranny, you'll notice that the shifting is likely less-than-desirable on the 90-94 cars. These transmissions tend to be notchy from the factory to begin with. The best solution short of a rebuild is to put in some good tranny fluid and replace the rubber bushings in the system with some metal bushings. This should help with grinding and missed shifts as well.

[2highpsi]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, higher displacement CAN be better, but I'll take a smaller more volumetrically efficient engine any day.

 

If you paid too much for parts, yes it would be over 5k in parts. The nice thing is so many people start these projects and don't finish them that parts can be found for dirt cheap.

 

This whole thing started because I said I thought DSMs were the best BUDGET performance car. I still think they are. Are there better cars out there? Ofcoarse. Could someone build a different car faster for less money? Sure, given the right circumstances. My only point was that these cars are everywhere. They are a dime a dozen. You can buy the car cheap, you can buy the parts cheap, and if you spend the time there is TONS of proven info on how to make them fast. My intent was never to convince you to ditch your Mustang and buy one of these. If there were a competition where I was given 5 grand and told to make a fast car, I would start with a 1st gen DSM.

[FourString]

Wow...this thread grew quickly. My favorite saying in the DSM world is "DSMs are as reliable as their owners." Simply put, if it breaks then fix it!

 

If you want to do an 11 second 1990 DSM for $5K, then I recommend staying with the stock bottom end 6bolt, keep the 3 bolt, and try a 20G turbo with all supporting mods. I also highly suggest buying used GOOD parts as much as possible. If by some chance you have enough $ in that budget to do DSMLink (which I think you will, and should) then I will even socket your EPROM ECU for free just to help. I have done a few already anyway. So there ya go. For those who do not know, you will find that the DSM community is generally very friendly and willing to help each other out.

[hpfiend]

My intent was never to convince you to ditch your Mustang and buy one of these. If there were a competition where I was given 5 grand and told to make a fast car, I would start with a 1st gen DSM.

 

I see your point- I never insinuated that- we are confusing our other conversation and this one- after some thought, I would keep my mustang and build up a dsm as a next project if it can be done this cheaply, I would never ditch a practically perfect somewhat rare coupe mustang for another car of the same year no matter how fast- I love this car.

 

If I did ever liquidate the mustang I will either part it out or close my eyes and take the loss on it and get the 03-04 EVO 8 (from our convo, thanks) or 03-04 C5 Z06.

 

I think the ideas are also overlapping as I bought my mustang 4 years ago to build a low 12 second daily driveable car as cheaply as possible and saw no more practical options at the time (def not any that sound as good ;-) )and when I go back and add things up it cost a lot more than I originally thought to build it properly- I did not know dsm's were capable of this and am intrigued.

 

My reasoning in continuing this post is trying to define the car you end up with for a 5 grand 1G DSM? Will it need race gas? Will it need lightened flywheel/grabby clutch, how much factory driveability are you giving up to get there... Trying to visualize the end product. If I took peoples word without doing my own research and asking my own questions I doubt my projects would turn out as well as they usually do (at least in my perspective)

 

I am sure someone could build an 11 second yugo for probably 3 grand but I wouldnt count on it being very reliable or nice to live with. I have been convinced the ET can be done for 5 grand I am just not convinced it can do it appropriately.

 

No offense intended.

[hpfiend]

Wow...this thread grew quickly. My favorite saying in the DSM world is "DSMs are as reliable as their owners." Simply put, if it breaks then fix it!

 

If you want to do an 11 second 1990 DSM for $5K, then I recommend staying with the stock bottom end 6bolt, keep the 3 bolt, and try a 20G turbo with all supporting mods. I also highly suggest buying used GOOD parts as much as possible. If by some chance you have enough $ in that budget to do DSMLink (which I think you will, and should) then I will even socket your EPROM ECU for free just to help. I have done a few already anyway. So there ya go. For those who do not know, you will find that the DSM community is generally very friendly and willing to help each other out.

 

Not sure who this was directed to but if it was me, Thanks! I was thinking balance and blueprint of whatever engine comes with it with some qualityparts if not already in there- no aftermarket blocks or stroker kits or trick race machining.

[2highpsi]

Fourstring - Thanks. And yes the DSM community for the most part is very helpful and nice.

 

Hpfiend - I am not sure on the race gas yet. I want to do it on pump. The driveability thing is kind of an opinion I guess. It will have an upgraded clutch and flywheel. Do I think it will make it less driveable? No. My Evo is 100% daily driver car. I drive to work, the store, with my kids. It has an upgraded clutch that some people might not like though. I might just be used to it now.

[kenny]

shep tranny! no broken tranny ever end of story and have you ever launched an awd, you dont just dump the clutch lol my friends 11 second 20g 3 bolt 1g is still on its stock tranny with 109k because he uses the 2 step right and preloads the driveline. He does just not stage the car stops and dumps it at 8k like a dumb dick would do.

 

Shep tranny != cheap.

 

The thread was about going 11s cheap.

[FourString]

My reasoning in continuing this post is trying to define the car you end up with for a 5 grand 1G DSM? Will it need race gas? Will it need lightened flywheel/grabby clutch, how much factory driveability are you giving up to get there... Trying to visualize the end product. If I took peoples word without doing my own research and asking my own questions I doubt my projects would turn out as well as they usually do (at least in my perspective)

 

You can use race gas if you like. You could lighten the stock flywheel if you like. That would be the cheapest route. A good clutch would be required. Drivability is not sacrificed very badly(if at all) with a clutch such as an ACT2600. As said though, it is a matter of opinion.

 

Not sure who this was directed to but if it was me, Thanks!

 

It was directed to whomever was looking to build a $5K DSM on a budget. However, I would gladly provide this service to anyone on CR.

 

...and you are welcome

[boosted98gst]

Shep tranny != cheap.

 

The thread was about going 11s cheap.

you can find them on dsmtrader for under 1k all day long.

[FourString]

Also keep in mind that there are other reputable DSM transmission vendors such as TRE and Jack's.

 

I am not saying a single bad thing about Shep. I'm just showing that there is a variety.

[SPLN SUX]

I have a cheap FMIC for sale... PM me.

[spooling 1g]

16g and a shot of nitrous if you cant run an 11 with that you failed at life

 

 

 

preach on.

[boosted98gst]

IwishIwascool ken on here use to have a 95 talon that ran 11.7's just with a 16g on stock intake and a small shot of nitrous. I am not sure what he had engine wise, but the car looked stock as can be.