TTQ B4U Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Here's one for the kitchen crew. I have the perfect graphic for this on my home PC too. Discuss: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_re_us/arkansas_town_curfew HELENA-WEST HELENA, Ark. - Officers armed with military rifles have been stopping and questioning passers-by in a neighborhood plagued by violence that's been under a 24-hour curfew for a week. ADVERTISEMENT On Tuesday, the Helena-West Helena City Council voted 9-0 to allow police to expand that program into any area of the city, despite a warning from a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas that the police stops were unconstitutional. Police Chief Fred Fielder said the patrols have netted 32 arrests since they began last week in a 10-block neighborhood in this small town on the banks of the Mississippi River long troubled by poverty. The council said those living in the city want the random shootings and drug-fueled violence to stop, no matter what the cost. "Now if somebody wants to sue us, they have an option to sue, but I'm fairly certain that a judge will see it the way the way the citizens see it here," Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution." The area under curfew, in what used to be a West Helena neighborhood, sits among abandoned homes and occupied residences in disrepair. White signs on large blue barrels warn those passing by that the area remains under curfew by order of Mayor James Valley. The order was scheduled to end at 3 p.m. Tuesday, but Valley said the city council's vote would allow police to have the same powers across Helena-West Helena. Among the curfew operation's arrests, 10 came from felony charges, including the arrest of two people carrying both drugs and weapons, Fielder said. The police chief said the officers in the field carry military-style M-16 or M-4 rifles, some equipped with laser sights. Other officers carry short-barrel shotguns. Many dealing crack cocaine and marijuana in the city carry pistols and AK-47 assault rifles, he said. "We've had people call us, expressing concern for their children," Fielder said. "They had to sleep on the floor, because of stray bullets." Fielder said officers had not arrested anyone for violating the curfew, only questioned people about why they were outside. Those without good answers or acting nervously get additional attention, Fielder said. However, such stops likely violate residents' constitutional rights to freely assemble and protections against unreasonable police searches, said Holly Dickson, a lawyer for the ACLU of Arkansas who addressed the council at its packed Tuesday meeting. Because of that, Dickson said any convictions coming from the arrests likely would be overturned. "The residents of these high-crime areas are already victims," she said. "They're victims of what are happening in the neighborhoods, they're victims of fear. But for them to be subject to unlawful stops and questioning ... that is not going to ultimately going to help this situation." The council rejected Dickson's claims, at one point questioning the Little Rock-based attorney if she'd live in a neighborhood they described as under siege by wild gunfire and gangs. "As far as I'm concerned, at 3 o'clock in the morning, nobody has any business being on the street, except the law," Councilman Eugene "Red" Johnson said. "Anyone out at 3 o'clock shouldn't be out on the street, unless you're going to the hospital." The curfew is the second under the mayor's watch since the rival cities of Helena and West Helena merged in 2006. That year, Valley set a nightly citywide curfew after a rash of burglaries and other thefts. Police in Hartford, Conn., began enforcing a nightly curfew for youths after recent violence, including a weekend shooting that killed a man and wounded six young people. Helena-West Helena, with 15,000 residents at the edge of Arkansas' eastern rice fields and farmland, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living. In the curfew area, those inside the homes in the watch area peered out of door cracks Tuesday as police cruisers passed. They closed the doors afterward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 If a majority of the law abiding citizens wanted it, then how is it unconstitutional? It's almost the same as DUI check points as I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 The constitution is there to protect individual rights, over and above majority rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I see nothing wrong. The ACLU represents a fairly small group (usually), IMO that goes against what our country was built on. Majority rule, bitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I see nothing wrong. The ACLU represents a fairly small group (usually), IMO that goes against what our country was built on. Majority rule, bitches. Sorry but the country was built around the idea of individual freedom, not majority rule. Majority takes precedence after the constitution. What's in question is whether or not the constitution is being violated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Sorry but the country was built around the idea of individual freedom, not majority rule. Majority takes precedence after the constitution. What's in question is whether or not the constitution is being violated. Actually our governmental system is built around majority rule. Individual "rights" are there but, they can be changed by the majority. PS. Give up now, I will win this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Incorrect, the basic rights were undeniable human rights, that were never suppose to be under the legislative power of a government body. P.S. I don't give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Actually our governmental system is built around majority rule. Individual "rights" are there but, they can be changed by the majority. PS. Give up now, I will win this argument. I'm in agreement. Society as a whole can take our rights away. I.E; Convicted criminals no longer have rights per a jury of their peers. If this majority neighborhood wants the bullshit to stop, it was voted in by them and the people wrecking the neighborhood are settled with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I don't think this is right, I'm not going to argue it since it appears everyone in this thread prefers to have the goverment protect them. This is police state style period. If they came to columbus and said they would do this I'm sure you guys would not be happy. Ohh your sitting at QSL were going to need to know why your here and search you........ Wow, Some of the people I would expect to be against are not. If this was not in a poor minority neighborhood would you still be ok with it? What if it was all over the united states? I mean it's safer right? How can you break laws if your under constant watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I don't think this is right, I'm not going to argue it since it appears everyone in this thread prefers to have the goverment protect them. This is police state style period. If they came to columbus and said they would do this I'm sure you guys would not be happy. Ohh your sitting at QSL were going to need to know why your here and search you........ Wow, Some of the people I would expect to be against are not. If this was not in a poor minority neighborhood would you still be ok with it? What if it was all over the united states? I mean it's safer right? How can you break laws if your under constant watch. If I lived in a high crime area filled with drive by's, crack heads etc. By all means it's for the better good. If you're innocent, then you shouldn't have to worry about anything. They targeted specific neighborhoods, not an entire city under the curfew. I'm not game for the government doing this as a whole, but if it was selected areas known for crime, drugs, shootings, then by all means. Simple solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 It would be wrong if the community didn't want it, but since it did then I see no harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Fixed both of your points I'll join in when at home if it's a decent thread PS. Give up now, Thorne will win this argument. PS. Thorne doesn't give up. PSS.....Thorne....just jabbing.....no harm intended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Fixed both of your points I'll join in when at home if it's a decent thread PSS.....Thorne....just jabbing.....no harm intended ACtually I've got to much real life shit going on to think about it hahahah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Throw Bill by his lonesome down off of Ohio Avenue at 3am, and he'll be asking for the government's help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggo Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 The first guy that lives in that neighborhood that feels his rights are being violated by the constant curfew will get the help of the ACLU, when he goes to court with them the 24 hour curfew rulings (and more to the point of constitutional law- the search and seizure practices that go along with curfews) will be found unconstitutional- maybe not in a local court but certainly on appeal in the higher courts, which will overrule any previous decisions. Majority rule usually wins, unless it happens to be on the wrong side of the law and someone complains in the correct way... All it will take is one whiner, game over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 I cant believe some of the things that I am reading in this thread. Giving up our individual freedoms for the greater good is not a good thing. History is something that will always repeat it self.. As we pass through the history books we find pages and chapters that are filled with leaders that place restrictions on the citizens "for the greater good". In 1918 the Bolsheviks took over in Russia for the "greater good" of the people. Millions suffered and died. The KGB emerged, Gulags were filed, and the people were not allowed to even travel without permission. The same was repeated in China, Germany, Cambodia and so on. If those are the type of governments you like, Go to N. Korea. Our Government will continue to erode the civil liberties of our citizens, someday we will look back and wonder what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 This just gives me another reason that no one in the armed forces should be out of the country right now. We need to fix OUR homeland before we police other countries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 WTF is happening, Rick and I are in constant agreement lately... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 WTF is happening, Rick and I are in constant agreement lately... It's the end of the world as we known it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 WTF is happening, Rick and I are in constant agreement lately... Thats it.... I knew the 9mm I bought from Hal was going to be needed. I was hoping not to need to use it on myself though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 It's the end of the world as we known it... and I feel fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Thats it.... I knew the 9mm I bought from Hal was going to be needed. I was hoping not to need to use it on myself though. When in doubt, empty the mag. When really in doubt, save one for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 and a triple cause I haven't had one lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmeden Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 WTF is happening, Rick and I are in constant agreement lately... A good idea is just a good idea. The thing I don't get is the so-called conservatives in this thread that don't see a problem with this. What happened to your slippery slope? The ACLU doesn't spend *all* their time defending Gay Neo-Nazi immigrants, stop believing everything Sean Hannity feeds you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 A good idea is just a good idea. The thing I don't get is the so-called conservatives in this thread that don't see a problem with this. What happened to your slippery slope? The ACLU doesn't spend *all* their time defending Gay Neo-Nazi immigrants, stop believing everything Sean Hannity feeds you. Ummm I see a big problem with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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