question for the engine builders

[natedogg624]

three questions:

this half bearing ring that goes in the casing:

i mistakenly forgot to remember what it looked like when i took the output shaft out of the casing. right now, it is flush with the seal on one side and there is this gap as pictured on the other. question is, is it supposed to have that gap, or is it supposed to be flush on both sides? if there is supposed to be a gap, does it matter which side is flush?

second question:

how do you clean the old gasket seal off the cases? obviously i don't want to use any kind of scraper in fear of digging into the case. i was thinking brake clean and a scotchbrite pad?

third and final:

the motor has been sitting in a crate in a heated closet in my apartment since mid november and it hasn't been cranked since then either. no coolant in it since beginning december, and sat upside down on my bench with no oil for the past three days now.

what do i need to do to make sure everything gets oiled properly before i push the start button. my concern is the lack of oil in the cylinder walls. i've seen the guys building car engines dump oil over everything before the button everything up, i know its a little different procedure but it got me thinking about my own engine. i was thinking a little oil through the spark plug holes and manually rotating the crank through the timing rotor.

better to ask the experienced guys than to experiment myself.

thanks fellas.

Edited January 11, 2009 by natedogg624

[f4isvt]

Never built a bike motor only car motors but a motor is a motor I would say yes absolutley that seal needs to be flush on both sides.

[brennan]

1. i won't answer for fear of being wrong

2. use brake clean and a rag, or possibly a pocket screw driver if you can be careful

3. i'm not too sure about this, but before you start it back up, prime the engine. unplug the coils and let it crank to build oil pressure.

i'm sure someone else can chime in to help, but that is what little i can do.

Edited January 11, 2009 by brennan

[1fasttc]

1. I do believe that the ring should be placed evenly in the middle. Its cut short so it can expand. Or the other half is longer, i have seen both.

2. You can use a razor blade but be careful, or just use a regular flathead screwdriver. Don't use brake clean its pretty corrosive stuff and you dont want that sitting in the motor.

3. Ok this is gonna be long.

1st: You need to put specified amount of oil in the motor as per Owners Manual. MAKE SURE ITS NON-SYNTHETIC!!!! VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!

2nd: You need to check the Oil level

3rd: You need to disable Spark(by pulling the EFI fuse if FI, or pulling the spark plugs wires if Carborated). YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT START THE MOTOR YET!!!

4th: In very short bursts crank the motor several times, about 8-10 times for about 2-3sec each time. This is to prime the motor. Then you need to crank it 2-3 times for about 10-15secs.

5th: Check the Oil Level you will need to add more as the motor was completely dry.

6th: If everything looks good Oil Level, Coolant Level and no leaks. Then re-install the spark plug wires.

7th: Cross your fingers say a prayer and try to start the motor. DO NOT GIVE IT ANY GAS!! Keep trying to start it even if it dies 8-10 times or more.

8th: When it finally starts let it IDLE! DO NOT GIVE IT ANY GAS!!

9th: Check all vitals, Oil, Coolant, Temps. If everything looks ok then AFTER you have reached operating temp shut it down.

10th: Now what happens from here is your decision, I dont know if you have a rebuilt Tranny or Brand New Rebuilt. Either way you should be doing an Oil Change right after it reaches Operating temp, New NON-SYNTHETIC OIL and Filter.

11th: Run it on NON-SYNTHETIC for about 100-200 miles, then you can go back to Synthetic. And be nice to it as well for those 100-200miles.

Anything else give me a call, you got my #. I have built atleast 10 car motors and can tell you everyone of them is still running to this very day with no problems.

Edited January 11, 2009 by 1fasttc

[natedogg624]

any recommendation on the brand of non-synthetic?

and dont worry about the oil through the spark plug holes?

[1fasttc]

No just make sure its High Quality, like Pennzoil or Castrol.

Nope no need to worry, the Priming sequence I gave you will do the trick. If you put Oil in through the spark plug holes you will foul your plugs and your bike will not start. Now you also have another option when you are putting your motor back together.

If you wanna dribble some oil on the timing gears before you button it up thats ok. Its ok to lubricate the cams as well, but it will all get primed.

[brennan]

1. I do believe that the ring should be placed evenly in the middle. Its cut short so it can expand. Or the other half is longer, i have seen both.

2. You can use a razor blade but be careful, or just use a regular flathead screwdriver. Don't use brake clean its pretty corrosive stuff and you dont want that sitting in the motor.

3. Ok this is gonna be long.

1st: You need to put specified amount of oil in the motor as per Owners Manual. MAKE SURE ITS NON-SYNTHETIC!!!! VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!

2nd: You need to check the Oil level

3rd: You need to disable Spark(by pulling the EFI fuse if FI, or pulling the spark plugs wires if Carborated). YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT START THE MOTOR YET!!!

4th: In very short bursts crank the motor several times, about 8-10 times for about 2-3sec each time. This is to prime the motor. Then you need to crank it 2-3 times for about 10-15secs.

5th: Check the Oil Level you will need to add more as the motor was completely dry.

6th: If everything looks good Oil Level, Coolant Level and no leaks. Then re-install the spark plug wires.

7th: Cross your fingers say a prayer and try to start the motor. DO NOT GIVE IT ANY GAS!! Keep trying to start it even if it dies 8-10 times or more.

8th: When it finally starts let it IDLE! DO NOT GIVE IT ANY GAS!!

9th: Check all vitals, Oil, Coolant, Temps. If everything looks ok then AFTER you have reached operating temp shut it down.

10th: Now what happens from here is your decision, I dont know if you have a rebuilt Tranny or Brand New Rebuilt. Either way you should be doing an Oil Change right after it reaches Operating temp, New NON-SYNTHETIC OIL and Filter.

11th: Run it on NON-SYNTHETIC for about 100-200 miles, then you can go back to Synthetic. And be nice to it as well for those 100-200miles.

Anything else give me a call, you got my #. I have built atleast 10 car motors and can tell you everyone of them is still running to this very day with no problems.

1. brake clean is not that corrosive, it's alcohol based.

you're thinking of carb cleaner probably.

you just have to be careful where you spray it.

and if you are laying any new gasket, you have to use some sort of cleaner, you CANNOT have any type of oil on the surfaces.

2. secondly, why would he run non-synthetic? he's not building the motor, just simply swapping transmissions.

[1fasttc]

How long has the other Tranny been sitting dry? Not to mention an older motor going dry. Its much better to be safe then sorry. I am just letting him know. He doesn't need to use my advice either. I just put it out there.

[brennan]

How long has the other Tranny been sitting dry? Not to mention an older motor going dry. Its much better to be safe then sorry. I am just letting him know. He doesn't need to use my advice either. I just put it out there.

no arguing here, just questioning.

as far as priming, you gave good directions, i'm just confused about the oil.

[1fasttc]

I just wanted to make sure that he was safe on the new tranny. I don't know how long its been dry. I wanna make sure that the gears and tranny are broken in properly, kinda like breaking in a new motor. There's gonna be alot of grinding going on. I am not gonna tell him "Hey just use Synthetic it'll be fine." As I stated I build Car motors, not motorcycle. If I am wrong then I am sorry.

[brennan]

I just wanted to make sure that he was safe on the new tranny. I don't know how long its been dry. I wanna make sure that the gears and tranny are broken in properly, kinda like breaking in a new motor. There's gonna be alot of grinding going on. I am not gonna tell him "Hey just use Synthetic it'll be fine." As I stated I build Car motors, not motorcycle. If I am wrong then I am sorry.

no no, i think you do have a valid point.

make sure you brake clean off your gears (not bearings) before you put them in, then oil. you really don't want to have any dirt in there.

i mean, i personally would be really skeptical of brake clean on certain things, but i watched a master tech at work the other day rebuild a tranny, he soaked everything in it, then made sure it was all lubed up and spinning properly before he sealed the casing.

[natedogg624]

How long has the other Tranny been sitting dry? Not to mention an older motor going dry. Its much better to be safe then sorry. I am just letting him know. He doesn't need to use my advice either. I just put it out there.

change of plans regarding how much trans im using, not sure if you caught this in my rebuild thread or not.

im still using the same 99 input and output shafts, only difference is im using the 05 2nd and 6th gear.

i like the way the 99 gears/shafts looked as well as the condition of the bearings, better than the surface rusted 05, so im keeping everything that i can original and just replacing those 2 gears like i said.

as for the condition of these two gears, its fairly decent. not perfect, the 05 trans as a whole has been sitting dry for about 2-3 years now not in an any kind of engine, on a shelf in their warehouse the seller said. however there is minimal surface rusting if any at that on these two gears. they will still get a thorough cleaning nonetheless and soaked in engine oil before everything is installed

so not a complete overhaul at all, just replacing two gears. change anything?

good info on the priming/starting procedure. question on that though: its carb'd, usually it doesn't start in the cold unless i choke it.

can i choke it to start it or no?

[ReconRat]

1. Dunno that engine.

2. I've used scotch-brite, but a slip with a screwdriver or other too hard scraper and you could create a permanent oil leak. Some people swear by a scraper made of hardwood. You can hammer a piece of copper pipe flat and sharpen it. That's softer than the aluminum engine, but harder than the old gasket. Permatex and others make a gasket remover liquid. There are nylon wheels for dremels and drills that are safe. I won't even say what I use for a gasket removal tool, it's too easy to make a mistake with it.

3. What 1fasttc said. But you assemble all those parts that will be oiled, with a good coating of oil. Yes, non-synthetic for engine break-ins. It's mostly a requirement for the proper seating of the piston rings. Don't know if there are other reasons.

[brennan]

i would think it would be fine to choke it, but don't do it until you're ready to start it, not priming it. and take a lot of 1fasttc's advice, my main concern is just how clean it's going to be when reassembled.

[natedogg624]

its probably going to be hard to prevent little pieces of gasket from getting in. any advice on this part of it?

i would think it would be fine to choke it, but don't do it until you're ready to start it, not priming it. and take a lot of 1fasttc's advice, my main concern is just how clean it's going to be when reassembled.

what do you mean clean? every cover and surface area will be wiped clean with the "blue paper towels" as well as properly lubed/oiled upon reassembly as per the manual

[1fasttc]

absolutely you can choke the motor. Thats part of the starting process, all that does is cut off some air so you get more fuel. as long as its part of the normal starting process you can do it, I just meant you cant roll on the throttle.

yeah he stated he was gonna soak those gears in oil before installing which is a must. I didn't realize what he was actually doing, just switching some gears.

on the suggestion of using a special tool to get the old gasket off, I think you could use a plastic scrapper as well.

brennan i think you were right, I was confused on the brake cleaner, carb cleaner. I just really try not to using chemicals when removing gaskets, although you do have to get the old one off 100%. I dont even use half the gaskets they supply anymore for my car. I use RTV Sealant and have had great success.

Edited January 11, 2009 by 1fasttc

[brennan]

what do you mean clean? every cover and surface area will be wiped clean with the "blue paper towels" as well as properly lubed/oiled upon reassembly as per the manual

it may just be me, i'm just paranoid and dirt or whatever else getting in your engine. i'm sure that's what a filter is for though. i was just a clean freak when i built the last 3 engines.

[brennan]

brennan i think you were right, I was confused on the brake cleaner, carb cleaner. I just really try not to using chemicals when removing gaskets, although you do have to get the old one off 100%. I dont even use half the gaskets they supply anymore for my car. I use RTV Sealant and have had great success.

sometimes i find rtv a lot better than some oe gaskets (depending on what style of gasket). i would say use some sort of soft gasket scraper, then before applying gaskets, spray brake clean into a rag and wipe the surfaces.

[natedogg624]

you should see me at work.

bench always stays clean, i wear lint free clothes when im working with this along with latex gloves. i use old 100% cotton t-shirts when working with any internal part and when im done for the day i put the case/oil pan back on (not bolted in or anything just resting on each other w/dowels) to keep anything from getting in while im not there.

[brennan]

you should see me at work.

bench always stays clean, i wear lint free clothes when im working with this along with latex gloves. i use old 100% cotton t-shirts when working with any internal part and when im done for the day i put the case/oil pan back on (not bolted in or anything just resting on each other w/dowels) to keep anything from getting in while im not there.

that's good then lol.

[1fasttc]

sometimes i find rtv a lot better than some oe gaskets (depending on what style of gasket).

yeah those shitty cardboard ones, like around the thermostat/water pump

i would say use some sort of soft gasket scraper, then before applying gaskets, spray brake clean into a rag and wipe the surfaces.

+1 ^^ I think that's your method right there for a 100% clean surface

[brennan]

+1 ^^ I think that's your method right there for a 100% clean surface

i'm glad we've finally agreed lol

yeah those shitty cardboard ones, like around the thermostat/water pump

haha, what kind of engines are you speaking of?

[natedogg624]

so whats your idea of a "soft gasket scraper?"

and what about preventing little flakes from going in to the engine?

[1fasttc]

i'm glad we've finally agreed lol

haha, what kind of engines are you speaking of?

Straight 6 on a Jeep, and my toyota 4 banger

so whats your idea of a "soft gasket scraper?"

and what about preventing little flakes from going in to the engine?

plastic putty scraper or something similar, to prevent those flakes, just put a damp cloth next to it

[brennan]

Straight 6 on a Jeep, and my toyota 4 banger

i rebuilt a 22re, i don't remember the thermostat being like that.

ahh, but i'm more of a honda guy. or was anyways.