An example of why I don't allign myself with christian faith.

[TTQ B4U]

Once you realize that Death is just a part of Living, it is not so bad.

 

I suppose and again am glad some are able to say they are happy feeling that way. However, I'll choose a little faith and look forward to the possibility of something else. Consider us both happy though.

 

 

I never said I had figured it out, or that Science was "right". However, when put into these words, Christianity just does not make sense either:

 

Those that do put things in such words and believe them in the way they do are ignorant of the true meaning behind things. Ignorance.

[sol740]

I can't show you how to measure your happiness vs mine in a tangle measurable format.

 

 

Was that so hard.

 

 

Moving onto your disturbing misrepresentation of science, and how we supposedly "know everything". The inverse is true. Religion claims to "know everything", not science. Science simply asks question, and proposes theory, to be tested. If a theory is proven wrong the scientific community moves on collectively, in search of a more fitting answer.

[TTQ B4U]

Was that so hard.

 

No, telling someone what they want to hear is always much easier than showing them the way to have faith in life. I'm not a priest you know. Besides, it's easier to believe in nothing than to believe in something. That hasn't evolved over time.

 

 

Moving onto your disturbing misrepresentation of science, and how we supposedly "know everything". The inverse is true. Religion claims to "know everything", not science. Science simply asks question, and proposes theory, to be tested. If a theory is proven wrong the scientific community moves on collectively, in search of a more fitting answer.

 

My religious beliefs are based on faith not someone telling me they know the absolute answer or simply on the findings and theories of science. Yours however, leave little to wonder about what could be.

[KillJoy]

immorality.

 

WOW... that is a big step there shooter. To say not believing in God mean you are immoral.

 

 

KillJoy

[TTQ B4U]

WOW... that is a big step there shooter. To say not believing in God mean you are immoral.

KillJoy

 

that's straight out of the Houghton Mifflin dictionary my friend.

 

Definition of atheism:

1.

1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2. Godlessness; immorality.

[KillJoy]

that's straight out of the dictionary my friend. Definition of atheism.

.

 

im⋅mor⋅al 

 

–adjective 1.violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics.2.licentious or lascivious.

 

 

 

mor⋅al 

 

–adjective 1.of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes. 2.expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel. 3.founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations. 4.capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being. 5.conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral ): a moral man. 6.virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.7.of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support. 8.resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty. –noun 9.the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.10.the embodiment or type of something.11.morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.

 

 

 

Where does it say that one must believe in God to know the difference between right and wrong?

 

KillJoy

[KillJoy]

that's straight out of the dictionary my friend.

 

Definition of atheism:

1.

1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2. Godlessness; immorality.

 

a⋅the⋅ism

 

 

 

–noun 1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings

 

Get a different VERSION of the Dictionary?

 

KillJoy

[sol740]

LMAO! ... more baseless nonsense, and now you're sinking low enough to attack me on a personal level, because you couldn't provide a sound argument.

 

Immoral ? How could you possibly know ? Whose moral compass are we using ? Christian , muslim, Confusious ?

[TTQ B4U]

LMAO! ... more baseless nonsense, and now you're sinking low enough to attack me on a personal level, because you couldn't provide a sound argument.

 

wasn't a personal attack of any kind. I don't know you....neither argument has been proved over history, so the fact that neither you nor I could convince the other on CR isn't shocking.

 

so far as morals....if you have a problem with the definition, call Houghton Mifflin and see if they will change it for you.

 

in terms of my view, you can use who's ever moral scale you want. you're without a God so it really doesn't matter in the end. You'll just be worm food and what the rest of us think, doesn't really matter.

[sol740]

Nice ninja edit where you took out the part about me being immoral. We can see those ya know, lying isn't very christian, even internet-lying.

[TTQ B4U]

Nice ninja edit where you took out the part about me being immoral. We can see those ya know, lying isn't very christian, even internet-lying.

 

Wasn't a Ninja Edit...you took it personally, I didn't intend for that, thus I removed it to clarify things. Next time I'll footnote it for you.

 

For the record, I never said you personally...I said your beliefs. aka atheism.

 

and where did I ever spout that I was a Christian or practice a specific faith?

[sol740]

Like I saie many, many posts ago, we should have an actual conversation so Im not just an ip address. The whole existential crew. Of course cars being the more important subject.

[TTQ B4U]

Like I saie many, many posts ago, we should have an actual conversation so Im not just an ip address. The whole existential crew. Of course cars being the more important subject.

 

you're not just an ip address to me man....don't take things so personally....you are an EVO DOER though

 

I saw that as a plate on a nice Evo in Indy last year EVO DOER

[KillJoy]

Does believeing in God, or being a Christian make you a "Moral Person"?

 

KillJoy

[Dubguy85]

Like I saie many, many posts ago, we should have an actual conversation so Im not just an ip address. The whole existential crew. Of course cars being the more important subject.

 

I'd sit down with anyone and talk about this subject....I'm a Christian, and went to a Christian college, So obviously u know my views... I have talked about this subject for awhile, and debated this subject for awhile....Heck I could probably debate on the athiest side as well as anyone, however I don't believe it....

 

But its easy to just say "screw it, there is no God because I can't see him, or Science can't prove him"

 

However God reveals himself through people, and also nature. I mean....How can anyone explain the complexity of this earth, and our bodies, and it just happends to work "perfectly" Just an "accident' or "big bang" ??

 

I think the Big Bang theory is harder to believe than believing in God.

[sol740]

If I didn't roll my eyes everytime I saw a personal plate I would kind of like 'EVO DOER'.

[TheHaze]

If I must be labeled first, than I guess I am agnostic, though my beliefs go beyond any one religion. I see a large trend here. There's a lot of questioning of religion and faith by way of scientific evaluation. How can an atheist really make an earth-based scientific claim about something that is incomprehensible? That can go for faith-goers as well, but they're not looking for proof obviously. If there is a creator, most of this debate is useless because none of what has been said can pertain to a non-worldly entity.

 

What I have read in this thread is the typical black versus white arguments of how "what you can't see, can't exist" or "my faith is my proof". This argument goes way beyond what we have come to know on this earth. Any rationale person can't deny a possibility in something, aka agnosticism.

 

As to the original disaster, errr, I mean Thorne; you now call yourself an atheist because things in life haven't gone your way. I think you need to step back and ask yourself about the conflicts in your life instead of blaming them on a religion. Most of the religious folk I have met did not look for answers or signs from their God but rather tried to follow a few guidelines to better themselves. It seems to me that you were looking in to Christianity in the wrong light, or any religion in that manner. I think most of the hatred thrown at religion is stemmed from something more personal within that person.

[KillJoy]

If I must be labeled first, than I guess I am agnostic, though my beliefs go beyond any one religion. I see a large trend here. There's a lot of questioning of religion and faith by way of scientific evaluation. How can an atheist really make an earth-based scientific claim about something that is incomprehensible? That can go for faith-goers as well, but they're not looking for proof obviously. If there is a creator, most of this debate is useless because none of what has been said can pertain to a non-worldly entity.

 

What I have read in this thread is the typical black versus white arguments of how "what you can't see, can't exist" or "my faith is my proof". This argument goes way beyond what we have come to know on this earth. Any rationale person can't deny a possibility in something, aka agnosticism.

 

As to the original disaster, errr, I mean Thorne; you now call yourself an atheist because things in life haven't gone your way. I think you need to step back and ask yourself about the conflicts in your life instead of blaming them on a religion. Most of the religious folk I have met did not look for answers or signs from their God but rather tried to follow a few guidelines to better themselves. It seems to me that you were looking in to Christianity in the wrong light, or any religion in that manner. I think most of the hatred thrown at religion is stemmed from something more personal within that person.

 

Well said.

 

:thumbup:

 

KillJoy

[Zack]

If no one went to church, prayed at their bedside, closed their eyes and uttered nonsense before dinner, ate wafers and 'paid' (contributed) for the Father's big house and anal lube to use on little boys.......

 

THE WORLD, AND THE DAY TO DAY EVENTS WOULD NOT CHANGE A BIT.

 

BTW, hi Killjoy.

[TTQ B4U]

If no one went to church, prayed at their bedside, closed their eyes and uttered nonsense before dinner, ate wafers and 'paid' (contributed) for the Father's big house and anal lube to use on little boys.......

 

THE WORLD, AND THE DAY TO DAY EVENTS WOULD NOT CHANGE A BIT.

 

sure it would. these acts themselves don't change the world like the wind blowing, but they change the people, who they are, how they behave and that in turn effects all that they do, thus changing their day to day events and thus impacting the world.

 

for all the "faith"ful people here...ironic to say the least.

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59528

[sol740]

If I must be labeled first, than I guess I am agnostic, though my beliefs go beyond any one religion. I see a large trend here. There's a lot of questioning of religion and faith by way of scientific evaluation. How can an atheist really make an earth-based scientific claim about something that is incomprehensible? That can go for faith-goers as well, but they're not looking for proof obviously. If there is a creator, most of this debate is useless because none of what has been said can pertain to a non-worldly entity.

 

What I have read in this thread is the typical black versus white arguments of how "what you can't see, can't exist" or "my faith is my proof". This argument goes way beyond what we have come to know on this earth. Any rationale person can't deny a possibility in something, aka agnosticism.

 

Being an agnostic is great. The fundementals are sound enough, you cannot (as of yet) prove there is not some kind of "god" somewhere out there. So you therefore cannot deny the existence of. Likely this will never be proven. However this comes back to the point I keep bringing up over and over. The likelihood of any human being having ever right about "god" is so low I can't even fathom it. Yet the numbers plummets to even lower levels when you take into account that the idea has to be passed from one human to the next. Even if by some off chance we got the right message at some point, would it reach a point thousands of years down the line through countless translations, reorganizations, and even rewritings. Most likely not, this has been all but proven by the Bible itself. How many different translations are there ?

 

Which leads directly into my other major point, probability. The story I made up about the Unicorn on Saturns Rings that rules our destiny. None of you can prove that that story I fabricated isn't in fact true. However not being able to prove it wrong, doesn't nessesarily make it any more right. Which is exactly how I feel about all organized religions, just because there is no truth-o-meter in place that can test religious texts, doesn't mean they are right by default. The probability stays the same that it is many times more likely that mankind was using religious influence to further ones selfish needs, rather than we just happened to defy the odds for thousands of years.

 

This of course only applies to organized religion, not nessesarily just a thinking that a god may possibly exist.

[TheHaze]

Which leads directly into my other major point, probability. The story I made up about the Unicorn on Saturns Rings that rules our destiny. None of you can prove that that story I fabricated isn't in fact true.

Sure it can be proven wrong. You mentioned a physical place in our solar system in which a false-biological creature would most likely have little chance surviving. This is the kind of situation science belongs to, as you used objects and locations that we know exist or are at least based off of something we know exists. You should read up John Locke's philosophy of religion. Though he is clearly a deist, he brought on some heavy arguments or at least interesting factors. This relates to your post because you used Saturn and unicorns as examples, though those are things we can imagine or comprehend. That is, they're based off of things that can be proven but are used as a preposterous argument. Locke often argued that a God is the only thing in existence that has not derived from anything we've seen or experienced.

[V8 Beast]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...

[V8 Beast]

One mans miracle results in anothers great misfortune....

[V8 Beast]

For every man that walks on water another man drowns on dry land..

 

 

Edit: For every triple post made an admin takes away three posts from a newb...