Aaron Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 I really want to get into road course racing, such as Mid-Ohio, Nelsons Ledges etc. I will be graduating this year from OSU and am looking at a second car that will be didicated to road course racing. Note that I am 6'6" So cars like the Miata/Elise etc will not work. Also, My plan is to spend around 20k on the car, so keep that in mind as well. Some cars that come to mind: C5 Z06 E46 M3 E36 M3 944 turbo (951) 911(haven't done much research on older ones yet) STI EVO Top two are the C5 Z06 and Evo 9 for me. Lets hear your suggestions. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Go for the Vette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 You're never going to find a best all-around road course car. If there were such a thing, everyone with brains would be driving it. There was a thread created within a month or two ago about the E46 M3's and someone summed the car up quite well. He said something along the lines of, "The car doesn't do one thing extraordinarily good, but it does everything very well." Out of your list I think the E46 M3 would be my first choice. Anything mid-engine isn't going to be the best for someone trying to pick up road course racing, as they can be very finicky as far as control. IMO, anything 4WD doesn't always make the best road course cars either. Usually they exhibit a tendency to understeer which isn't something you want to deal with. I would try to find something well balanced and RWD.. so out of your list the Z06 and the M3s appeal most to me. Honestly, if you could find an LSx swapped FD.. you'd have a perfect road course car. VERY well balanced machines paired with a LSx motor that's actually lighter and more reliable than the 13b when beaten on and you're in a good position to learn how to control and balance your vehicle without worrying about much else. Finding a car that suits your needs in stock form is ideal too. You really want to focus on learning the cars limits in stock form in the beginning and then step up your suspension and power as you learn how to control and toss around weight and use power to your advantage. I'll just stop there, I could probably go on forever about this and that.. but I think you should consider something your most confident and comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Based on your list and soon to be recent college graduate budget - Corvette. Fast, affordable parts, no real "vices" as far as handling. 944T is tempting, until you start buying nice new German parts. That, and a turbo is a bit harder to drive fast (on a road course) than a normally aspirated car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 For 20K and without the worry of huge headaches the only choice to get on your list is the C5 Z06. I own two of the cars on your list and while they're great track cars if prepared correctly, the 'vette is still much more capable if prepared to the same level. E46 M3 needs a couple things addressed to ge a good track car...not a ton but a couple. This is my pick for best all around car but not best track car. 911 is even more capable than the M3 but if you have no formal experience it's not a great car to learn in. The 951 (944 Turbo) is fast but a maintenance nightmare. A friend of mine figured up what he spent on maintenence on his 951 after tracking it for a couple of seasons and it was close to $.70 per mile in maintenance cost alone. Stay away if you actually want to have money left over to make it to the track after buying the car. **As a matter of fact I wouldn't suggest ANY turbo car to someone looking to LEARN this hobby. You spend soo much time messing with the car and worrying about heat and detonation and whatever else is going on that you don't have the time to focus on driving. Even non-modified turbo cars seem to expose every weakness of the car at the track when run extremely hard for 20+ minutes at a time. C5 Z06 is great. I've seen alot of them puffing smoke on the track when the engines start to get tired...but they do that as they pull away from me down the straights. I'm sure AJ will chime in but with just T1 sways, tires and a good allignment they really come alive. From there adding parts just makes it that much quicker. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 R6 2 > 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourString Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 I vote for the Evo. Look at what RRE is doing with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 if you could find an LSx swapped FD.. you'd have a perfect road course car. VERY well balanced machines paired with a LSx motor that's actually lighter than the 13b Don't think i'd go that far, but more reliable yes, especially on a road course. It's a moot point though because at 6'6" he'll never fit in one, especially with a helmet on. Andy is spot on with the turbo car comments, which is the only thing that'd deter me from an Evo9. The C5Z isn't completely perfect, with the ability to easily break rotors (which are stupid cheap to replace by the way), and the whole locking into 4th gear, but those are pretty minor gripes compared to the possible problems of other cars. The truth is that when tracking any vehicle regularly you'll expose plenty of things that need to be beefed up/upgraded/maintained more. So my vote is for the C5Z, it's relatively trouble free and lets you focus on driving more. This is of course if you're talking about just doing HPDE's...if you're planning on actually trying to race down the road we've all steered you wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi nrg Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Evo hands down, I'm not sure if you have a lot of track experiance but being able to enjoy and push an awd car compaired to a rwd car can be a lot more forgiving. Never in my life have I ever driven a car that you can push the limits of and really drive hard and not have to worry about crashing. I upgraded my pads that was the only mod I had to do and with basic driving skills I was able to keep up with guys that had been racing for years. The grip is unsurpassed it will also be alot faster with less modding. Make the right choice And as far as breaking parts the Evo is pretty soild I know some pretty serious road race and time attack dudes that their cars take a pretty good beating and have yet to break. Oil changes, brake pads, and fluid changes like t-case, tranny, and rear diff are about the only thing the car needs regularly if you track it alot/drive it hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Evo hands down, I'm not sure if you have a lot of track experiance but being able to enjoy and push an awd car compaired to a rwd car can be a lot more forgiving. Never in my life have I ever driven a car that you can push the limits of and really drive hard and not have to worry about crashing. I upgraded my pads that was the only mod I had to do and with basic driving skills I was able to keep up with guys that had been racing for years. The grip is unsurpassed it will also be alot faster with less modding. Make the right choice Could not disagree more... RWD cars are miles more forgiving than an AWD car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 You might also think of getting something cheap that you can throw a lot of good prep into, like proper rollcage. $20k will go much further into a focus or neon than it will a vette or bmw, although I will admit you won't look as cool or have as much power. You will learn better though when you actually have to focus on turning, rather than just stomping the gas at the end of the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Could not disagree more... RWD cars are miles more forgiving than an AWD car. AWD - you can push further before it steps out, more shit to break RWD - when you step out, its easier to recover, and more predictable from my personal experience, going from nothing but RWD my whole life to a WRX that scared me once. Take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 A Focus or a Neon? Come on now, if you're budget racing at LEAST buy a FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi nrg Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Could not disagree more... RWD cars are miles more forgiving than an AWD car. Absolutely not. I have had my evo completely ass sideways and thought there was no getting out of it and just stayed on the gas and it pulled its self through. Where as a rwd car would have oversteered out of control. learning how to drive an awd car compared to rwd is a totally different ball game. I will be honest I would be scared shitless to push a rwd car on the track as hard as I pushed my Evo. But to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Absolutely not. I have had my evo completely ass sideways and thought there was no getting out of it and just stayed on the gas and it pulled its self through. Where as a rwd car would have oversteered out of control. learning how to drive an awd car compared to rwd is a totally different ball game. I will be honest I would be scared shitless to push a rwd car on the track as hard as I pushed my Evo. But to each his own. What you've described in both of your posts is the fact that you're using the AWD system in your car to cover up mistakes from driving over the limit. It's just that if you were in a 'vette and completely overshot the corner and decided to throw it in anyhow you couldn't count on being able to stab the gas to recover. Meanwhile the driver who knew the limits of his Z06 had properly slowed for the corner and was already putting power down to drive out of the corner while you were using all of your power and available grip to scrub speed and get the car back online. Don't get me wrong....there's a few guys with very well setup Evo's esp up in your neck of the woods (Alex "Evo8" from cleveland racing). But ultimately the Evo is still going to have some front drive characteristics to it that can't be masked by the AWD system. They're outstanding cars, but as a track-only car I'd still pick the Z06 first. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 What you've described in both of your posts is the fact that you're using the AWD system in your car to cover up mistakes from driving over the limit. It's just that if you were in a 'vette and completely overshot the corner and decided to throw it in anyhow you couldn't count on being able to stab the gas to recover. Meanwhile the driver who knew the limits of his Z06 had properly slowed for the corner and was already putting power down to drive out of the corner while you were using all of your power and available grip to scrub speed and get the car back online. Don't get me wrong....there's a few guys with very well setup Evo's esp up in your neck of the woods (Alex "Evo8" from cleveland racing). But ultimately the Evo is still going to have some front drive characteristics to it that can't be masked by the AWD system. They're outstanding cars, but as a track-only car I'd still pick the Z06 first. Andy I had a long post prepared about why Captain Evo is wrong, but you have said all the key reasons already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 another option if you're willing to feel a bit "slower" would be to buy an e36 M3. It's certainly down on power from everything mentioned, but can be a great track car and can also be a GREAT car to learn to drive in. With your budget you can buy one, prep it for track use and still have plenty left over for tires and DE entry fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGU Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Where as a rwd car would have oversteered out of control. . Not if your a mad tight JDM drift racer!!!!! in all honesty if you think a rwd car would have over steered where a AWD car can pull out you need to rethink the skills/driver in the car. its probably true in some cases but if the driver is skilled enough with the proper know how, they could pull out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 another option if you're willing to feel a bit "slower" would be to buy an e36 M3. It's certainly down on power from everything mentioned, but can be a great track car and can also be a GREAT car to learn to drive in. With your budget you can buy one, prep it for track use and still have plenty left over for tires and DE entry fees. This is a pretty fair argument as well. With many of the cars on your list you can barely buy the car itself for $20K. With the E36 you can get the car for $10-15 and spend the rest on prep work. The flip side of the argument is that at their age most of the E36 cars are going to need $2-3k worth of bushings, ball joints, suspension done right away when you get one. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 A Focus or a Neon? Come on now, if you're budget racing at LEAST buy a FC. I guess you've never heard of Spec Focus or the Green Baron oh, and FC's are only cool with V6's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi nrg Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Thats why I said to each his own. I just like having the extra security of awd. I'm not hating on the vette if I had a second choice I would probably choose that as well. I've riden in both and driven one I just felt more comfortable with my driving ablities in the evo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 I guess you've never heard of Spec Focus or the Green Baron oh, and FC's are only cool with V6's There is no possible way to make a FWD worth owning, let alone worth racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl1647545492 Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Z06 Vette would be a killer choice.There was a older guy running away from everyone in a stock car,come to think of it a well driven Miata with track tires would be a good/cheap "learning" car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Factory 5 Cobra. 351W Tremec T-5 Slicks Hold on for dear life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Porsche > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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