HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Can someone that is more informed on legal issues explain something to me. I had a personal injury patient that got care in our office subsequent to a motor vehicle accident. We had a signed assignment of benefits that gave me ownership of a portion of the settlement up to the amount of our total bill. The patient obtained settlement from Auto Owners insurance on the 10th of this month in the amount of 3,000.00. Once I found out about this I confronted him about this settlement and went to collect the money due to me, 1846.00. At first he said he did not get a check from Auto Owners, then he finally admitted it. And of course, he spent the money. Accoding to the ORC 2913.02 Theft (A) No person, with purpose to deprive the owner of property or services, shall knowingly obtain or exert control over either the property or services in any of the following ways: (1) Without the consent of the owner or person authorized to give consent; (2) Beyond the scope of the express or implied consent of the owner or person authorized to give consent; (3) By deception; (4) By threat; (5) By intimidation. (B)(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of theft. Personal services are defined as; (E) “Services” include labor, personal services, professional services, public utility services including wireless service as defined in division (F)(1) of section 4931.40 of the Revised Code, common carrier services, and food, drink, transportation, entertainment, and cable television services and, for purposes of section 2913.04 of the Revised Code, include cable services as defined in that section. I filed a report with the Mt. Vernon reporting theft of services. the prosecutor has declined to do anything about this. I talk to him on the phone for about 30 minutes yesterday and he could not give me a good reason he would not prosecute theft of service. He keep saying it is a civil case. I agree that there is civil issues to recover what I can, but the ORC seems clear to me that this should be considered theft. Can someone please explain to me why this would not be criminal too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 We had a sign assignment of benefits that gave me ownership of a portion of the settlement up to the amount of out total bill. How does this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 How does this work? Its called being a chiropractor. Or simply taking advantage of someone who doesnt know any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Its called being a chiropractor. Or simply taking advantage of someone who doesnt know any better. It is called business, something you don't know anything about. Go flip a burger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 We had a sign assignment of benefits that gave me ownership of a portion of the settlement up to the amount of out total bill. Question - was this to take the place of regular monetary payment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 How does this work? This is a very common practice. Attorneys do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Question - was this to take the place of regular monetary payment? No... it gives me ownership of a protion of the claim to pay our bill. this is used when people don't have the money to pay for care upfront. For example they dont have medpay or health insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 No... it give me ownership of a protion of the claim to pay our bill. this is used when people dont have the money to pay for care upfront. For example they dont have medpay or health insurance. I understand. Hope it gets worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 I understand. Hope it gets worked out. In 2003 I lost 25k in one year like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 My wife is a Real Estate/Contract attorney...I'll ask her. She just took off for a few hours though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 you should take care of people in need of your 'services' regardless of their ability to pay the bill---that's what it means to be a doctor. business or not, the payment should be knowing that you truly helped someone. how much to they owe you, out of curiosity?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 you should take care of people in need of your 'services' regardless of their ability to pay the bill---that's what it means to be a doctor. business or not, the payment should be knowing that you truly helped someone. how much to they owe you, out of curiosity?? as quoted. went to collect the money due to me, 1846.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Once I found out about this I confronted him about this settlement and went to collect the money due to me, 1846.00. damn, that's an expensive massage. food for thought:: medicare reimburses surgeons about $1200 for a total knee or hip replacement surgery--and they keep lowering that amount. that means i would get paid 2/3 of what a chiropracter gets paid to see a patient in my office, do a total knee replacement on them, and see them in follow-up. the $1200 is what i get paid for the surgery and all the post-operative care. and america thinks doctors get paid too much. not to piss in your thread too much. good luck, but you aren't going to get paid shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc5.0 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 damn, that's an expensive massage. food for thought:: medicare reimburses surgeons about $1200 for a total knee or hip replacement surgery--and they keep lowering that amount. that means i would get paid 2/3 of what a chiropracter gets paid to see a patient in my office, do a total knee replacement on them, and see them in follow-up. the $1200 is what i get paid for the surgery and all the post-operative care. and america thinks doctors get paid too much. not to piss in your thread too much. good luck, but you aren't going to get paid shit. step 1.flat hot chick step 2.pay up front step 3.perform boob job step 4. profit?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 you should take care of people in need of your 'services' regardless of their ability to pay the bill---that's what it means to be a doctor. business or not, the payment should be knowing that you truly helped someone. how much to they owe you, out of curiosity?? ...The patient obtained settlement from Auto Owners insurance on the 10th of this month in the amount of 3,000.00. Once I found out about this I confronted him about this settlement and went to collect the money due to me, 1846.00. At first he said he did not get a check from Auto Owners, then he finally admitted it. And of course, he spent the money... That's too bad. Sounds like they just decided to stiff you and back out of the deal. If you have a signed contract, that seems to me to be a theft of services. Have you tried talking to anyone else other than that particular lawyer? And doesn't Ohio have a service for business owners that help them with these kind of cases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 you should take care of people in need of your 'services' regardless of their ability to pay the bill---that's what it means to be a doctor. business or not, the payment should be knowing that you truly helped someone. how much to they owe you, out of curiosity?? I allow about 3-4 charity cases per month. When you work for a hospital or a large group that pays you a paycheck it makes it easy to say that. The reality is I have overhead to pay. Charity does not pay it! When someone recieved the money to pay and spent it on a big screen it changes the game a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 I am assuming the form you had them sign, saying that you would be paid from the settelment money, is legally binding in OH (ie - your Atty checked it over when you started it)? I know that some wording is legal in some places, and not others . If you have used it before, and "won" the case, I would also assume it is "legal". If it IS legal in OH, file a civil case? Also, contact the local BAR Association to get referrals for Atty's would take the Case. :thumbup: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Doc I would guess they are not willing to prosecute because the money was never in your hands. A lot of people look as theft as taking something that you once had in your posession... Or maybe the prosecutor has seen this happen a lot and feels you would not benefit from it.... Or maybe the prosecuter was out sick on the day they covered theft of service and doesnt know what it really is... 1. Print off legal explanation of theft of service 2. Type up how it is related to your current situation 3. Basically do their job for them 4. Profit???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 I am assuming the form you had them sign, saying that you would be paid from the settelment money, is legally binding in OH (ie - your Atty checked it over when you started it)? I know that some wording is legal in some places, and not others . If you have used it before, and "won" the case, I would also assume it is "legal". If it IS legal in OH, file a civil case? Also, contact the local BAR Association to get referrals for Atty's would take the Case. :thumbup: KillJoy The forms I use are written by John P Lowry Esq in Cincinnati. I try to be as careful as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 good luck, but you aren't going to get paid shit. You are most likely right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Doc I would guess they are not willing to prosecute because the money was never in your hands. A lot of people look as theft as taking something that you once had in your posession... Or maybe the prosecutor has seen this happen a lot and feels you would not benefit from it.... Or maybe the prosecuter was out sick on the day they covered theft of service and doesnt know what it really is... 1. Print off legal explanation of theft of service 2. Type up how it is related to your current situation 3. Basically do their job for them 4. Profit???? The prosecutor and I had a not so pleasant conversation on Friday about this. I don't think he likes me. This guy did not even know how the ORC read. He said the ORC says that I must be "permanently deprived" of the money. I corrected him about that and he got really mad. I was not trying to belittle him, just trying to point out that he was not correct in his remembrance of the ORC wording. The way I look at it is the guy shoplifted in my office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 damn, that's an expensive massage. food for thought:: medicare reimburses surgeons about $1200 for a total knee or hip replacement surgery--and they keep lowering that amount. that means i would get paid 2/3 of what a chiropracter gets paid to see a patient in my office, do a total knee replacement on them, and see them in follow-up. the $1200 is what i get paid for the surgery and all the post-operative care. and america thinks doctors get paid too much. How long does it take you to do the surgery? How many follow up visits? How much is the medical device? How much is the hospital bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Pentapost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc5.0 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 forgot to add a business owner, I do feel for you.sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 He said the ORC says that I must be "permanently deprived" of the money. The way I look at it is the guy shoplifted in my office. Well in that case its going to be hard to prove theft of service until someone dies. Wow, that guy has no clue. I hate dishonest people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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