robhawk Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 POW's or detained individuals should be treated with respect to an extent. However they do not deserve the same rights as those granted to US citizens under the constitution. When American lives are in danger some rights must be waived in order to protect the greater public. That is combat, and it will never change, as wrong as it may seem. I am all for use of force when needed to save American lives, I also think that the right evidence must be presented to use that force. The Gitmo individuals are there for a reason, I dont think they were grabbed from their country on a whim? But proper treatment is needed until otherwise deemed that force is necessary to save the lives of our citizens.I agree with both of you. Prison should not be a place to hone your skills or become a beast in the gym. Nor should I have to bankroll your extracuricular activities while you're there.My comment to max power was dripping with sarcasm. A criminal is a criminal, a murderer is a murderer, whether they planned 9/11 or shot someone at 7-11 in the head. There is no difference. They deserve to be punished the same..whatever our society determines that punishment should be.I just can't get into the 'treat muslim or arab criminals (or those SUSPECTED of crimes) one way' and 'american' criminals another way. Sounds too much like the 60's and prior times to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InyaAzz Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 POW's or detained individuals should be treated with respect to an extent. However they do not deserve the same rights as those granted to US citizens under the constitution. When American lives are in danger some rights must be waived in order to protect the greater public. That is combat, and it will never change, as wrong as it may seem. I am all for use of force when needed to save American lives, I also think that the right evidence must be presented to use that force. The Gitmo individuals are there for a reason, I dont think they were grabbed from their country on a whim? But proper treatment is needed until otherwise deemed that force is necessary to save the lives of our citizens.I agree 100% with you. I am merely saying and responding to those who just feel that killing them without the government presenting some sort of case against them is A-OK. As far as the the folks at Gitmo..does anyone really believe the government was 100% correct on every individual there? I know it's easy to say..well, the safety of our country trumps locking up a few innocent people...but really? Is locking up someone without presenting a case against them really helping or hurting our cause? Again..sounds too much like what this government used to do to it's own citizens, without hesitation.The bake sale and falafel classes are the best idea I've heard so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InyaAzz Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 There is no simple answer to this problem and no matter what we do the rest of the world is going to have something to say about it and us.Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Evidence in Terror Cases Said to Be in Chaos Military Officials Reject Ex-Prosecutor's Chargeshttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011302888.html?wprss=rss_nationIt makes it really hard to prosecute people when you don't even have case files on them. And you'd think if all this "intelligence" gained from torturing these guys and denying them rights - you'd have that information organized somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sour grapes maybe..."I am happy to respond under oath to any of the allegations," Col. Lawrence Morris, chief military prosecutor, said in an e-mailed statement. Vandeveld, he said, "was disappointed when I did not choose him to become a team leader, and he asked to resign shortly thereafter, never having raised an ethical concern during the 9 months I supervised him. I relied on his representations to me about Jawad and other cases I entrusted to him (which included his advocacy of a 40-year sentence for Mr. Jawad the week before he departed)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ok, you're right, the guy is pissed now - sour grapes as you put it. So, show me the files then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 How do we know they are really missing? Are there other sources? You see, the whole idea of saying "sour grapes" is to infer that he is intentionally trying to harm his previous employers by saying falsehoods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Exactly, so all that needs to be done to prove that this guy is acting out because of 'sour grapes' is to show us all the files, where are they?I think you're right with the sour grapes, but I doubt it's because it's false. I don't have numbers or anything, but I guess if you'd get pissed at your former employer, you wouldn't lie about the shiddy things they do (though I know some people do that, normally just to get attention). It makes much more sense to get back at a former employer by outing them for something you KNOW their doing wrong because you used to be an employee.I'm not saying it's not possible that it's false, but it's really easy to prove who's lying here. Edited January 26, 2009 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Would like to have seen a little more digging from the Washington Post.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InyaAzz Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 If this is true, it's sounding more and more like this is a good idea.Let's say it IS true..the previous administration HAD to have known at some level. And you wonder why some people don't trust the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harb67 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Prisioners should be forced to work for the food and lodging. You don't work you don't eat and you sleep on the floor. I like what Sheriff Joe Arpaio is doing with his inmates. Make them watch G rated movies, no porn, no weights, and wear pink.Joe Arpaio is a piece of shit. You forgot to mention that the prisoners he is forcing to live outside in tents in 138 degree weather are not all violent criminals; a large number of them are only drug users. He is the poster child for the shitshow that is the war on drugs. I'd be all for his tactics if he were directing them at the right people...anyway, enough of that. I just can't let a mention of this guy go without chiming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhawk Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ah they will survive the heat, Ive been in the heat in a tent. That is actually good drug rehab, cold turkey.Joe Arpaio is a piece of shit. You forgot to mention that the prisoners he is forcing to live outside in tents in 138 degree weather are not all violent criminals; a large number of them are only drug users. He is the poster child for the shitshow that is the war on drugs. I'd be all for his tactics if he were directing them at the right people...anyway, enough of that. I just can't let a mention of this guy go without chiming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harb67 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 So you're willing to pay for someone else's drug rehab? How kind of you!Anyway, enough topic derailment from me. I just hate Arpaio too much to let a mention of him go uncommented on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 watched the movie Rendition this weekend and remided me of this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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