CCW guys - my car = my property?

[evan9381]

just a short history to lead up to the question...

 

a couple months ago, i had a little issue at work. when i went to the range ~a year ago, a bunch of .22 bullets spilled in my trunk, down into the wheel well, etc. i had cleaned out my car, and since i had no where to put them at the time, threw them in my cupholder. they had been in there probably close to 6 weeks. well, someone, dont know if it was security, another associate, etc, saw them in my cupholder. i got called to HR to talk to the "safety services" manager, and ended up squashing it with him. basically told him what happened, he was a fellow gun enthusiast, and instead of sending me home for the day, he told me i could take them home, or have someone come pick them up...i wasnt trying to miss out on 1/2 hour of work, and i couldnt reach anyone to pick them up, so i jokingly asked him if he wanted them (30 or so bullets, so maybe 50 cents worth of ammo). he actually said he was fine with that since he was leaving. went out, gave them to him, he took them home/police station/whatever. issue squashed.

 

now, the part of the conversation that im concerned with, is i was told that weapons, etc, are not allowed anywhere on company premises, EVEN THE PARKING LOT. now i could understand if im on foot going from the street on the east side of the lot and cut thru to the street on the west side, sure. but isn't my car = my property? can they legally tell me that i can not have my gun in the glove box, or anywhere for that matter, IN MY CAR?

[evan9381]

if im right in assuming i should be able to keep it in my locked car, does anyone have anything i can provide to this guy, i guess as CYA measure?

[RedRocket1647545505]

Good question. I'm not exactly sure, but I would assume that even though its IN your car, it's still ON their property. During my orientation at Children's Hospital, they told us 'No weapons at the hospital, not even in your car.'

 

My advice would be to just hide it better.

[evan9381]

its not a matter of hiding it. i can do that just fine. but if i find something that says "an employer cant restrict you from having a handgun locked in your car on their property", i could have that peace of mind instead of "what if theres that 1% chance maybe someone says something, and then they ask to look in my car"...obviously i could tell them to piss off, but that probably wouldnt help the situation

 

...and to be honest, i would have pegged you of being the LAST person to say that.

[Rotarded1647545491]

Ohio is an "at will employment" employment state. At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal.

 

If your company has a written policy banning firearms on company property, which if you look closely at your employee manual/handbook will probably be there, you might not want try and play this game with them. Even if you find a loophole, you probably will end up losing.

[RedRocket1647545505]

...and to be honest, i would have pegged you of being the LAST person to say that.

 

Your safety > someone's stupid rule

 

It's your life, do what you feel you need to do.

[evan9381]

Your safety > someone's stupid rule

 

It's your life, do what you feel you need to do.

 

yeah, kinda my point. if i cant keep it in my car at work, then i cant protect myself between my front door on my way to work, and any stops between then, and me getting back to my house at the end of the night.

 

i should tell them if they're going to keep me from being able to protect myself between my house and work, then work and home, i expect them to protect me for those 4.8 miles. HA

[RedRocket1647545505]

Ohio is an "at will employment" employment state. At-will employees may be terminated for any reason, so long as it's not illegal.

 

If your company has a written policy banning firearms on company property, which if you look closely at your employee manual/handbook will probably be there, you might not want try and play this game with them. Even if you find a loophole, you probably will end up losing.

 

This.

[RedRocket1647545505]

yeah, kinda my point. if i cant keep it in my car at work, then i cant protect myself between my front door on my way to work, and any stops between then, and me getting back to my house at the end of the night.

 

i should tell them if they're going to keep me from being able to protect myself between my house and work, then work and home, i expect them to protect me for those 4.8 miles. HA

 

Normally, I'm all for following the rules. But some rules are just flat-out stupid.

 

As Rotarded said, I wouldn't make an ordeal out of this. Sometimes it better to just be passive about things.

 

And remember, concealed means concealed.

[HotCarl]

Ive done it at previous jobs before (not currently however). Even if someone looks in your car they cant exactly see inside your glove box unless you let them. The issue I was always afraid of is what if something is said or accused, if your companies security demands to check your car Im pretty sure they can.

[evan9381]

maybe ill just start parking at my dads office, which is convienently like 150 yards up the street...

[V8 Beast]

I've actually had to deal with this before. One of the biggest problems is that you have a gun readily available if you are terminated, get pissed off, etc. Its suppose to make the work place safer, but in reality people are just hiding their guns.

 

You are on company property the second you pull into the lot. The car belongs to you but it is sitting on their property. Its kind of like having a gun in your inside pocket when you walk into a building. Its in your pocket... but your pocket is on their property. Their rules cover every square inch of the land they are paying for. The only option available would be to park your car at your dads office. A company that allows guns will get destroyed if any of their employees go on a rampage. If they say you cant have guns and an employee goes crazy their hands are clean. Its all politics....

[Rayman]

I'd just leave it locked in your glovebox and call it a day. They can't search your car without your permission...which I'm assuming you'd say no. We are an "at will" state but if your evaluations every year shows that you've met their requirments and they still fire you. You can take that to court...which will probably end up settling outside of court.

[verse]

but if i find something that says "an employer cant restrict you from having a handgun locked in your car on their property".

 

You won't find that in the AG handbook. You do have the right to park in a different parking lot, then you can have your gun locked up in it, or just make it so no one has a reason to think you have a gun in your car. That's what I do and I just keep it in my car at work, even though my boss has told me he doesn't want me having a gun on work property.

[TurboNova]

4th amendment protects you from unlawful search and seizure, its your car...and unless there is a contract you sign then id say conceal in your car (locked glovebox) if you have a valid CCW permit then you are good to go.

[SpaceGhost]

yeah, kinda my point. if i cant keep it in my car at work, then i cant protect myself between my front door on my way to work, and any stops between then, and me getting back to my house at the end of the night.

 

i should tell them if they're going to keep me from being able to protect myself between my house and work, then work and home, i expect them to protect me for those 4.8 miles. HA

 

Where do you live and work and what do you do at Work? There are not too many places and times in Columbus that I would not feel safe while I am unarmed. I just don't go anywhere I don't feel safe I guess. Am I the only person on this board that thinks this whole CCW is rather silly to have all these hassles? I mean Columbus isn't exactly a dangerous town IMO. This whole CCW thing seems to be such a hassle for Columbus.....

 

We have signs all over campus here, and I would be terminated immediately is anyone saw a gun/ammo in my car. I spend 9 hrs here a day, and I really don't go to too many places, I'm in bed by 9pm, so yeah CCW would be a big waste of time for me I guess.

 

Man so many places I see have the signs up and I would be more nervous leaving a firearm in the car while out at an establishment. I don't like to leave anything of value in my car. It's your right I guess, and if you put up with all the crap that goes with it then OK.

[rampage]

The Ohio CCW handbook:

 

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/200808_ccw_book.pdf

 

From page 16:

 

Private Property and the Workplace

Under the law, private employers may, but are not required to, prohibit

the presence of firearms on their property or motor vehicles owned

by the employer. You should make yourself aware of your employer’s

policies before you go to work with a handgun. In addition, the owner

or person in control of private land or premises or person leasing land or

premises from the government may post a sign in a conspicuous location

that prohibits persons from carrying firearms or concealed handguns.

Ohio law provides that a person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition

of a parking lot or other parking facility is not guilty of criminal

trespass but is liable for a civil cause of action for trespass.

Furthermore, a landlord may not prohibit or restrict a tenant with a

concealed carry license from lawfully carrying or possessing a handgun

on residential premises.

 

I'm not sure what the official interpretation is on this, but it doesn't appear to be completely clear. If you decide to do it, keep it hidden and stay quiet about it.

[verse]

Where do you live and work and what do you do at Work? There are not too many places and times in Columbus that I would not feel safe while I am unarmed. I just don't go anywhere I don't feel safe I guess. Am I the only person on this board that thinks this whole CCW is rather silly to have all these hassles? I mean Columbus isn't exactly a dangerous town IMO. This whole CCW thing seems to be such a hassle for Columbus.....

 

We have signs all over campus here, and I would be terminated immediately is anyone saw a gun/ammo in my car. I spend 9 hrs here a day, and I really don't go to too many places, I'm in bed by 9pm, so yeah CCW would be a big waste of time for me I guess.

 

Man so many places I see have the signs up and I would be more nervous leaving a firearm in the car while out at an establishment. I don't like to leave anything of value in my car. It's your right I guess, and if you put up with all the crap that goes with it then OK.

 

CCW is there so you can protect yourself and your family. If you had a crystal ball, then by all means don't carry a gun, you already know what's going to happen. None of us know what's going to happen and want to protect our family. Crazier things have happened than being robbed at gunpoint in Grove City. Criminals don't care if it's a bad part of town or a good part of town, most will choice the ladder.

 

Also, many stores and restaurants do care about our safety and the safety of our families. They allow us to carry in their establishments. If they have a GB sign on the door, then don't go in, they don't want my money. There are a couple goofy laws in the CCW for Ohio and there are politicians working on those being fixed. You read the book and it's not that hard to comprehend.

[RedRocket1647545505]

CCW is there so you can protect yourself and your family. If you had a crystal ball, then by all means don't carry a gun, you already know what's going to happen. None of us know what's going to happen and want to protect our family. Crazier things have happened than being robbed at gunpoint in Grove City. Criminals don't care if it's a bad part of town or a good part of town, most will choice the ladder.

 

Also, many stores and restaurants do care about our safety and the safety of our families. They allow us to carry in their establishments. If they have a GB sign on the door, then don't go in, they don't want my money. There are a couple goofy laws in the CCW for Ohio and there are politicians working on those being fixed. You read the book and it's not that hard to comprehend.

 

:werd:

 

I like using the analogy, 'Do you only wear your seatbelt when you think you're going to get into a wreck?'

 

And Ohio law really isn't that hard to follow. My main peeve with it is restaruant carry. Having to unholster and secure before going in to eat is ridiculous and increases your chances for a ND.

 

Lodge Bar - Leave that shit at home

Max and Ermas - WTF is it going to hurt?

[evan9381]

someone on another forum posted this...

 

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?id=12135

 

Fairfax, Va. – Today, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously in support of allowing employees to store legally owned firearms in locked, private motor vehicles while parked in employer parking lots. This decision upholds NRA-backed legislation passed in 2004.

 

“This is a victory for the millions of American workers who have been denied the right to protect themselves while commuting between their homes and their workplace,” said NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre. “This effort was aimed at skirting the will of the American people, and the intent of legislatures across this country while eviscerating Right-to-Carry laws. This ruling is a slap at the corporate elitists who have no regard for the constitutional rights of law abiding American workers.”

 

In March 2004, the Oklahoma legislature passed an amendment holding employers criminally liable for prohibiting employees from storing firearms in locked vehicles on company property. A number of corporations subsequently filed suit in opposition to the new laws, alleging they were: unconstitutionally vague; an unconstitutional taking of private property; and preempted by various federal statutes. The lower court ruled in favor of the injunction.

 

“This issue was contrived by the gun control lobby who goaded corporations into doing their dirty work for them,” said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. “However, this ruling is a vindication for every hardworking and lawful man and woman whose basic right to self-defense was taken away on a whim by corporate lawyers. NRA is prepared to defend this right and to ensure the safety of every American worker.”

 

In October 2008, Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry and Attorney General Drew Edmondson appealed to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals the lower court decision to strike down the NRA-backed worker protection laws. Today’s proceedings handed down by Circuit Judges Paul J. Kelly, Bobby R. Baldock, and Michael W. McConnell reversed the lower court’s grant of a permanent injunction.

 

so i guess, does state law > fed law in this case?

[verse]

:werd:

 

I like using the analogy, 'Do you only wear your seatbelt when you think you're going to get into a wreck?'

 

And Ohio law really isn't that hard to follow. My main peeve with it is restaruant carry. Having to unholster and secure before going in to eat is ridiculous and increases your chances for a ND.

 

Lodge Bar - Leave that shit at home

Max and Ermas - WTF is it going to hurt?

 

Yeah, the restaurant carry is stupid. You shouldn't be able to carry in a bar, but a Red Robin or O'Charley's, it just seems a little rediculous.

 

so i guess, does state law > fed law in this case?

 

I believe all federal laws come before state laws, but Ohio is still an "at will" work environment, so you can still get fired if they don't like it.

[evan9381]

yeah. oh well. ill have to figure something out.

[Guest Hal]

State law > federal law in that case. State's rights people, constitutional law.

 

Your employer can prohibit weapons on their property. It has nothing to do with CCW in this case.

 

Now, if you get into the ability to carry in a federal building's parking lot, that's a whole different story.

[Putty]

My company does not allow guns IN the building, but my assumption was anything in my car in the parking lot was far game. Ammo itself is not against the law to have, so I am not sure why this was an issue for you. Had it been a .38 in your cupholder I could see the concern, but some loose rounds....makes no sense to me.

 

 

Your employer can prohibit weapons on their property.

 

 

Loose rounds are not weapons.

[verse]

Loose rounds are not weapons.

 

I was suspended at school once for having some dummy .308 rounds in my backseat. "Inducing panic." It was lame. I got pulled out of class, was patted down by 2 LEO's and had my car strip searched. I even told them they were dummy rounds and they couldn't be fired.

 

Mind you, these were under a hoodie and you had to be looking very hard to actually see them.