STEVE-O Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I was looking at the specs etc and they seem pretty close and the darts are far cheaper... I know a lot of people love the afr but what do you think about the dart heads? DART SPECS 225CC 62CC combustion chamber 2.050 intake 1.6 exhaust .600 max lift 1.290 valve springs AFR'S SPECS 225CC 72cc chambee 2.080 intake 1.6 exhaust .650 max lift to me they are pretty close on paper but the dart heads are like 1g cheaper... what are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtbolt64 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Just assuming but the AFR's will be fully cnc ported where the darts may be as cast ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 AFR'S SPECS 225CC 72cc chambee 2.080 intake 1.6 exhaust .650 max lift These. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 AFRs have a thicker deck. but the darts flow real well for how cheap they are, afr i think out flows them some though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam1647545489 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There is a reason they are more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There is a reason they are more expensive. I know the afrs are like top shelf but my overall goal is 500whp with heads cam in tka e longtubes and cutouts and I am pretty confident I can get that with the dart heads... or is there another brand of head that you think would work better? I will want to spray down the road but only like 100-150 shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Thread needs flow numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I have AFR's on my car /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam1647545489 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I know the afrs are like top shelf but my overall goal is 500whp with heads cam in tka e longtubes and cutouts and I am pretty confident I can get that with the dart heads... or is there another brand of head that you think would work better? I will want to spray down the road but only like 100-150 shot If it is a stock bottom end car, it will be hard to get there without some spray. expect 450-470rwhp with ls1 head cam cars with all other bolt ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 TEF heads http://www.totalengineairflow.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 If it is a stock bottom end car, it will be hard to get there without some spray. expect 450-470rwhp with ls1 head cam cars with all other bolt ons. Its doable if he ports his intake and gets a healthy cam... That is if he has a manual and the stock rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Just be happy making 400rwhp with ported 243s, a healthy cam, and bolt-ons, then you can spray 100-150 on top of that. You'll have enough fun breaking shit and trying to get that to hook. Now if you've got your heart set on 500rwhp and doing it N/A you might want to look into a stroker of some sort. Your stock bottom end is capable of getting there its just next to impossible to do it N/A, you are limited by a few too many things. Dart heads are nice, but are designed to be further ported for maximum performance. AFRs are good too, but for the money TrickFlows perform better (see Gearhead's post). Not to mention that there are a lot of heads that will not work on an LS1's smaller bore (3.898) as compared to that of LS2s and LQ9s (4.0) or bigger LS3s (4.065) and bigger. You want to make big power N/A and there are other limiting factors, so if you're going to build a stroker its much more worth it to start with a bigger block. Just my 2 cents. That would be most people's reasoning and why these options are so popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Its doable if he ports his intake and gets a healthy cam... That is if he has a manual and the stock rear. Not to argue with you, but I strongly doubt it. Please show an example of an f-body making 500rwhp N/A on the stock bottom end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Not to argue with you, but I strongly doubt it. Please show an example of an f-body making 500rwhp N/A on the stock bottom end. Umm I make 450 on a baby cam and unported parts in an auto with a leach of a rear end and tranny. Take a manual car with my setup and an MS3 and you have a 500hp car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Umm I make 450 on a baby cam and unported parts in an auto with a leach of a rear end and tranny. Take a manual car with my setup and an MS3 and you have a 500hp car. maybe... anyone care to try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 maybe... anyone care to try? I think Billy already did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There are as far as I know like 4 or 5 on LS1tech making 500rwhp on a stock bottom. Only 1 of them has broke so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam1647545489 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/732392-recipe-500-rwhp-heads-cam.html http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1157946-6-0-gto-l92-heads-508rwhp.html http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291879 There is a few combos that did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam1647545489 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Umm I make 450 on a baby cam and unported parts in an auto with a leach of a rear end and tranny. Take a manual car with my setup and an MS3 and you have a 500hp car. I think a thin head gasket, good heads, beefy cam (maybe flycut pistons to fit) and ported fast 90/90 or 92 1 7/8's headers, no cats, electric water pump, alot of timing and good air intake would definetly be a close call to 500. Doubt it would be fun to street drive but it could easily be tuned to make it drivable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I think a thin head gasket, good heads, beefy cam (maybe flycut pistons to fit) and ported fast 90/90 or 92 1 7/8's headers, no cats, electric water pump, alot of timing and good air intake would definetly be a close call to 500. Doubt it would be fun to street drive but it could easily be tuned to make it drivable. I doubt I could make 500, but 470-480 would be doable. I have 205's in the car now and they flow great for what I need. 225's, an Ms4, and a fast 92 could get it real real close to the 500 like you said. I do think anyone making 500 in an auto is on the very edge of drivability. Edit: I think I see what Scott means. Yes making the power is doable but not in a "street car". Put an MS4 in a car that makes 510rwhp and I bet a car with a baby cam still beats it at the track. Steve, dont make a 500 hp car that runs 12's when you can make a 440 hp car that runs 11.5's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 nope mine is an a4 and I jsut read a guy making 508rwhp with afrs and a cam and longtubes nothing else so it can be done for those who dont believe... but this is what I am thinking now as my setup for my goal AFR ported fast 90/90 long tubes with cutouts either ms3 or ms4 cam flycut pistons or new pistons I dont want to spend the money on a bigger block or a stroker kit.. If I came close say 475+ wheel I will be happy and then just spray.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 double... because at that point I will wait for my rear end to go and I will also have a big tranny cooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 nope mine is an a4 and I jsut read a guy making 508rwhp with afrs and a cam and longtubes nothing else so it can be done for those who dont believe... but this is what I am thinking now as my setup for my goal AFR ported fast 90/90 long tubes with cutouts either ms3 or ms4 cam flycut pistons or new pistons I dont want to spend the money on a bigger block or a stroker kit.. If I came close say 475+ wheel I will be happy and then just spray.. I wouldnt go any bigger than an MS3. Honestly I think an MS3 is too big for a car thats not spraying off the line... but thats me. A lot of people love them. Oh, and you dont have to flycut with an MS3. Any idea on the longtubes? I got QTP's which work good, but have been known to have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted August 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I wouldnt go any bigger than an MS3. Honestly I think an MS3 is too big for a car thats not spraying off the line... but thats me. A lot of people love them. Any idea on the longtubes? I got QTP's which work good, but have been known to have issues. I was thinking pacesetters because I herd the fitment is really nice but I have not spent a lot of time lokoing into those yet.. This all started for me because my boss used to build 2000+ motors and we started talking about my car and how all the power is in head flow etc and this went on for over an hour. So after that I started researching heads etc and intakes that worked well. Yes the cam was important but not as much as the heads. I am not going to start my build until next season so I ahve a while to put together a good list of the parts I will want to use then it will be just a matter of who I have build the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 You are definitely in the right place for that. Just remember this.. in a lot of cases the extra cost only nets you an additional 1-5hp. In the end you may have 20 more hp than the next guy but he saved $3000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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