Flybye Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I haven't diagnosed everything yet, but checked ALOT so far. It has a new pump, ground is good, relays and fuses are good, battery is new, pump resistor has been bypassed. I didn't check for spark yet since i've been working by myself. I also don't have all my tools at my new place. The car turns over just fine and the accessories do work. The fuel pump just won't kick on? So far im down to thinking it is my pcm? Some research has also directed me to the CPS or anti theft? But I don't think either would cut power to the pump? It just seems there are so many little issues with these damn cars that I can't pin point the actual problem. Any help or info would be great...ask me all the questions you need. This is the first time in 3 years It has ever really given me a problem. It sucks because I was meeting a guy the next day to possibly make a trade for it. I just want this car fixed and sold asap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 If the security light in the dash isn't flashing, that would rule that out. Possible fuse or relay? A PCM problem is highly unlikely. Does it the pump cycle when the car is keyed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UR LOSN Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 http://www.grandprixforums.net a lot of info on there for ya... a lot of people have had problems with the CPS.... it would start then randomly die on the highway. check to see if you have "any" voltage to the pump.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 there are 2 relays oh these. just because the relay clicks, dont mean its really working(ie dirty contacts inside) check spark. report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 http://www.grandprixforums.net a lot of info on there for ya... a lot of people have had problems with the CPS.... it would start then randomly die on the highway. check to see if you have "any" voltage to the pump.... I had this happen to me. No security light either. The car would sometimes start up and run fine for a while then randomly stall do to lack of fuel. Or sometimes it just wouldn't start. I replaced the pump thinking that was the issue only to have it happen again a few days later. If you can scan the car to see what codes it has that would help. Security codes don't always throw a Check Engine Light. Do you have fuel pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 don't remember if 99 has it or not but there used to be a fuel pump resistor on those that would burn up and cause a no start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 If the security light in the dash isn't flashing, that would rule that out. Possible fuse or relay? A PCM problem is highly unlikely. Does it the pump cycle when the car is keyed up? The little red security light at the front of the dash? I checked it last night with the key on and got nothing. I have checked all the fuses and replaced the FP relay and even swapped them around before. I have heard from many people that the PCM's do go bad quite often.... http://www.grandprixforums.net a lot of info on there for ya... a lot of people have had problems with the CPS.... it would start then randomly die on the highway. check to see if you have "any" voltage to the pump.... Im on all the sites and have searched all week. Read what I said...all the forums are doing is making it hard for me to pin point the actual problem. I have got some useful info, but it still isn't running. Im also not getting any response to my threads over there. I have heard alot about the CPS going bad, but does that cut all pwer to the pump? there are 2 relays oh these. just because the relay clicks, dont mean its really working(ie dirty contacts inside) check spark. report back I will have a friend come over today and turn the motor for me. I will get back to you with the results. I had this happen to me. No security light either. The car would sometimes start up and run fine for a while then randomly stall do to lack of fuel. Or sometimes it just wouldn't start. I replaced the pump thinking that was the issue only to have it happen again a few days later. If you can scan the car to see what codes it has that would help. Security codes don't always throw a Check Engine Light. Do you have fuel pressure? It doesn't start up at all but will turn over just fine. How would I have pressure if the pump isn't working?lol Your problem was probably the MAF or FP resistor correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 don't remember if 99 has it or not but there used to be a fuel pump resistor on those that would burn up and cause a no start. Yes they do....I already have it bypassed. So I don't think that is my problem. The car will still run just fine with it bypassed. It will just put the pump in high speed all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It doesn't start up at all but will turn over just fine. How would I have pressure if the pump isn't working?lol Your problem was probably the MAF or FP resistor correct? Just making sure that the pump is the problem is all I was getting at. You said you were going to check for spark later so I thought why not check for fuel pressure first. And no, my issue was with the VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System). The security light in the gauge cluster is the one that may or may not come on and cause issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 A few years ago my wife's car wouldn't start. Changed the fuel pump, resistor, etc. It ended up being the harness that connects to the fuel pump underneath the tank/car. Something like 2' harness. It must have had a short in it somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 A few years ago my wife's car wouldn't start. Changed the fuel pump, resistor, etc. It ended up being the harness that connects to the fuel pump underneath the tank/car. Something like 2' harness. It must have had a short in it somewhere. or maybe something chewed on it. i've seen that a few times too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/gearhead559/gtpfuelpumpwiring.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 The car is getting spark and there is power to the pump...it clicks on and sounds like it is trying to work. But nothing is actually being pumped through it. I just used my outlet tester because I cant find my multimeter....gotta pick up a new one or find it in storage. Maybe check the wiring again? I already did once, but could have missed something. The ground looked fine also.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Try using a jumper wire on the Fuel Pump Relay (to the inside of the FP SPD Control Relay), might help sorting things out... Edit: Pin 87 to 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I've got a decent otc scan tool I don't use much right now if you'd like to borrow it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Try using a jumper wire on the Fuel Pump Relay (to the inside of the FP SPD Control Relay), might help sorting things out... Edit: Pin 87 to 30 I've already tried that...but with the 85 tab bent it bypasses the resistor anyways. I got nothing. I've got a decent otc scan tool I don't use much right now if you'd like to borrow it Im gonna borrow one from a friend and see what I find. Like I said...all the accessories work with the key on, the pump just won't prime. The red security light on the dash blinks then stops when the key is in the ignition. I don't remember if it did that before?lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 You can just do what I told you to try and take off the cover for the Fuel pump and jiggle the harness a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 You can just do what I told you to try and take off the cover for the Fuel pump and jiggle the harness a little. Done that already...I didn't put the cover back on yet. The pump is brand new, wires have been "jiggled" and the pump does make a clikck sound when the ignition is turned on. I also see bubbles in the clear line like it is trying to do something. I went out to smoke and tried the 10 minute relearn for the passlock. Still got nothing...im gonna try the 30 minute procedure tomorrow and also attempt to run a scanner on it. I might also disable the passlock system and see what I happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 you know nothing with out a DVOM and see if you have a full voltage at the pump. if you do, you got a bad pump. if you dont, then theres your sign. hell hot wire the pump and see if it comes on. god damn it you dont know shit till you know what you do and dont have. do you have power going to it(loaded, ie plugged in ). we can sit here and guess at shit all day. stop being lazy and go test something. and no im not doing it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 you know nothing with out a DVOM and see if you have a full voltage at the pump. if you do, you got a bad pump. if you dont, then theres your sign. hell hot wire the pump and see if it comes on. god damn it you dont know shit till you know what you do and dont have. do you have power going to it(loaded, ie plugged in ). we can sit here and guess at shit all day. stop being lazy and go test something. and no im not doing it for you. Im picking a new one up tomorrow. Thought about it....but meh I know what needs done....I just don't have all my tools here and my storage unit is HUGE. When my grandmother passed we put all her stuff in there and I forgot to move my stuff out. Now it is all stuck in the back. I also just wanted to know any common problems people know of so im not out in the cold working on it all damn day. My mustang is taking up what little garage space I have. I guess I have been pretty lazy though. Shit like this is one reason why im not a tech anymore. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I would've hot wired the pump by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I would've hot wired the pump by now. Not all the tools...and not much time working 2 jobs. I have just tinkered with it here and there. I only had about 20 minutes to work on it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 it would take 1/2 that to take some speaker wire and hook it up the the pump and battery. lazy damn kids these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybye Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 it would take 1/2 that to take some speaker wire and hook it up the the pump and battery. lazy damn kids these days I don't have that much wire around the house.....I will update tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I've already tried that...but with the 85 tab bent it bypasses the resistor anyways. I got nothing. By connecting pins 87 and 30 on the actual Fuel Pump Relay, not the speed control relay, the pump will engage regardless of any outside influence (theft deterrent, PCM line driver, etc). This is how alot of us drain the tank for race gas. Here's a VIN 1 diagram (has the SPD Control relay) to add to Rob's.... http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2077/001yde.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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