Change is here!!!

[AngryBMW]

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/capitalhill.htm

 

Easiest breakdown of this bitch of a bill...dont think you are losing freedoms? Read on

 

Great link, Jason. Keep them coming as you find them.

-Marc

[greg1647545532]

Great link, Jason. Keep them coming as you find them.

-Marc

 

It's kind of a silly link.

 

1. Want to spend your money on dirt roads? Tough, the government thinks it knows better than you and is building them out of "concrete" and "asphalt."

 

2. Think your military is overgrown and should be fighting with muskets again? Well the government is taxing YOUR MONEY and making you spend it on things like joint strike fighters. The outrage!

 

etc. That's all the list is. You lose the freedom to have no health insurance and/or shitty health insurance. Another way to look at it is that the government is going to tax people in order to pay for increasing the standards in the health insurance industry. If you already have health insurance, you get a tax break. This bill robs people of their freedom to keep that tax money for themselves, just like, oh, every other bill involving taxation ever passed.

[HAOLE]

It's kind of a silly link.

 

1. Want to spend your money on dirt roads? Tough, the government thinks it knows better than you and is building them out of "concrete" and "asphalt."

 

2. Think your military is overgrown and should be fighting with muskets again? Well the government is taxing YOUR MONEY and making you spend it on things like joint strike fighters. The outrage!

 

etc. That's all the list is. You lose the freedom to have no health insurance and/or shitty health insurance. Another way to look at it is that the government is going to tax people in order to pay for increasing the standards in the health insurance industry. If you already have health insurance, you get a tax break. This bill robs people of their freedom to keep that tax money for themselves, just like, oh, every other bill involving taxation ever passed.

 

That seriously flawed thought process. First of all, infrastructure is not comparable to personal liberty and freedoms that are guaranteed in the constitution. Placing a living tax on the citizen does the exact opposite. Now we all shall pay a tax for the privealge of being alive in the US, that flys in the face of the constitution.

 

National defense is something that is spelled out in the constitution health care is not..Enough said there.

[greg1647545532]

Joint strike fighters are not spelled out in the constitution. It's an outrage!

 

Every dime in taxes you pay go towards the privilege of being alive in the US. If you want to live in the US and be alive and earn income, you have to pay taxes. This is nothing new.

[Drewhop]

I just wanted to take a minute and refresh peoples memory

Socialism http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism (read #3)

 

Democracy http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

 

Capitilism http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism

[HAOLE]

Joint strike fighters are not spelled out in the constitution. It's an outrage!

 

Every dime in taxes you pay go towards the privilege of being alive in the US. If you want to live in the US and be alive and earn income, you have to pay taxes. This is nothing new.

Supporting the military is very clear in the constitution. I would suggest reading the whole thing once.

Article I section 8

 

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

 

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

 

To provide and maintain a Navy;

 

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

 

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

 

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

[greg1647545532]

Read it, "Joint Strike Fighter" doesn't appear even once. I swear. My freedom to be protected by a military devoid of Joint Strike Fighters is being infringed!!!!!

[HAOLE]

Read it, "Joint Strike Fighter" doesn't appear even once. I swear. My freedom to be protected by a military devoid of Joint Strike Fighters is being infringed!!!!!

 

Neither does M16, land mines or MRE's but is still national defense. But hey, if you want to look like a fool in here knock your self out.

[greg1647545532]

Post up some more of the constitution for me, that was awesome.

[HAOLE]

Post up some more of the constitution for me, that was awesome.

Here you go...

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Preamble

[greg1647545532]

What's that? Why is blue and underlined? Seems short, too.

[HAOLE]

What's that? Why is blue and underlined? Seems short, too.

 

That is about all we have left since people like you got into office.

[greg1647545532]

That is about all we have left since people like you got into office.

 

What do you mean, people like me? White guys? That's just ignorant. Racist.

[smokin5s]

That is about all we have left since people like you got into office.

you do realize he's messing with you right?

[HAOLE]

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/obamacare_dees.jpg

[greg1647545532]

Oh my god, you mean blacks and whites are gonna have to use the SAME WAITING ROOMS?!?!?! Where's my sharpy, I need to go protest.

[wagner]

There's a whole lot of rhetoric, and partisan propaganda-ism going on in here. There is a simpler way look at the issue.

 

Healthcare costs have been skyrocketing for many, many years. Republicans had the power to make sweeping changes to the system over the course of 8+ years. Not just healthcare though, throw in every major economic issue we are having. Then when these same issues came to a head, they just blamed it on "not being conservative enough". Even when they had complete executive and legislative control, it was the Dems fault.

 

Hold that thought, I think a piece of the sky just grazed my skull, someone call a TOWN HALL !!! I need to yell incoherently !!! THIS BILL ISN'T ABSOLUTELY PERFECT !!!

 

QFT again....

 

Since everbody else seems to be throwing their ideas around let me give you mine in a nutshell on how to lower healthcare costs. I might be might, I might be wrong but maybe all of this politcal bullshit and fuckery needs to stop on both sides and people need to do real work:

 

1. Stop fraud in the healtcare system. How much money is lost to this?

 

2. Help make people be more healthy (this falls under the wrong people losing money)

There are WAY to many fat and unhealthy people in this country compared to the rest of the world. America needs to stop being fat and lazy and become the country we were in the 40's thru 60's.

 

3. Healthcare industry needs to get their costs inline ( should tie into first point)

 

These are just a few I can think of real quick and I might be way off base. The fact that people think people in the medical field make to much money is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. That is right up there with people who say teachers are overpaid.

 

This country needs to make a fundimental change backward when we acutally had values and respect. I mean come on people spitting at the people going to vote on this bill? Calling black reps the N-word as they walk in to vote?

 

 

Maybe we need to get back to basics and do the right thing? The fact that people are interested in where tiger woods or jessie james dick has been shows the path this entire country is going down and that the focus is in all the wrong places across the board.

 

/rant back to the e-thug politcal fuckery

[Drewhop]

QFT again....

 

Since everbody else seems to be throwing their ideas around let me give you mine in a nutshell on how to lower healthcare costs. I might be might, I might be wrong but maybe all of this politcal bullshit and fuckery needs to stop on both sides and people need to do real work:

 

1. Stop fraud in the healtcare system. How much money is lost to this?

 

2. Help make people be more healthy (this falls under the wrong people losing money)

There are WAY to many fat and unhealthy people in this country compared to the rest of the world. America needs to stop being fat and lazy and become the country we were in the 40's thru 60's.

 

3. Healthcare industry needs to get their costs inline ( should tie into first point)

 

These are just a few I can think of real quick and I might be way off base. The fact that people think people in the medical field make to much money is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. That is right up there with people who say teachers are overpaid.

 

This country needs to make a fundimental change backward when we acutally had values and respect. I mean come on people spitting at the people going to vote on this bill? Calling black reps the N-word as they walk in to vote?

 

 

Maybe we need to get back to basics and do the right thing? The fact that people are interested in where tiger woods or jessie james dick has been shows the path this entire country is going down and that the focus is in all the wrong places across the board.

 

/rant back to the e-thug politcal fuckery

 

Common Sense is not needed in here. I have said it before.

[wagner]

Common Sense is not needed in here. I have said it before.

 

Sorry must have missed it due to the amount of MENSA level stuff in here

[HAOLE]

QFT again....

 

Since everbody else seems to be throwing their ideas around let me give you mine in a nutshell on how to lower healthcare costs. I might be might, I might be wrong but maybe all of this politcal bullshit and fuckery needs to stop on both sides and people need to do real work:

 

1. Stop fraud in the healtcare system. How much money is lost to this?

 

2. Help make people be more healthy (this falls under the wrong people losing money)

There are WAY to many fat and unhealthy people in this country compared to the rest of the world. America needs to stop being fat and lazy and become the country we were in the 40's thru 60's.

 

3. Healthcare industry needs to get their costs inline ( should tie into first point)

 

These are just a few I can think of real quick and I might be way off base. The fact that people think people in the medical field make to much money is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. That is right up there with people who say teachers are overpaid.

 

This country needs to make a fundimental change backward when we acutally had values and respect. I mean come on people spitting at the people going to vote on this bill? Calling black reps the N-word as they walk in to vote?

 

 

Maybe we need to get back to basics and do the right thing? The fact that people are interested in where tiger woods or jessie james dick has been shows the path this entire country is going down and that the focus is in all the wrong places across the board.

 

/rant back to the e-thug politcal fuckery

I will give you my opinion by the numbers....

1. Health care fraud is a serious issue, but you have to look at what is being deemed fraud. Fraud has such a loose definition in the med-legal arena it is scary. For example. If a person receives a service that the patient needs but medicare says no they dont, you have fraud, even though the patient received the service and needed it in the opinion of the doctor and the patient. Many docs have been sanctioned for billing for services that were medically necessary, but later found to be elective or maintenance issues by an untrained bureaucrat follow a page in a book and not taking the patient into consideration.

In addition when you see these high figures on health care fraud the way they come to the number is very suspect. They (the OIG) sample a set number of claims, say 1000 claims. the look at what the think are fraud and determine 10% were fraudulent on average. they then take that number and apply the percentage to all the claims submitted. Bam..... now 10% of all claims are fraud $XXXX millions in fraud. All that from some serious extrapolation.

 

2. I agree

 

3. We will never have the cost inline until we go back to a cash health care system. Look at the vets that provide great care to your dog, for much cheaper than you can get from your doctor. I will give you an example, my son stuffed a peanut up his nose when he was 1 1/2 years old. That cost me $2500 to get the nut out of his nose. I ask a guy that is a vet in Johnstown what it would cost to get and rock out of my dogs nose, he said about $75 -$150. Why the difference? Because of a third party payer system! People dont care what it cost if they dont directly pay for it.

[CRed05]

3. We will never have the cost inline until we go back to a cash health care system. Look at the vets that provide great care to your dog, for much cheaper than you can get from your doctor. I will give you an example, my son stuffed a peanut up his nose when he was 1 1/2 years old. That cost me $2500 to get the nut out of his nose. I ask a guy that is a vet in Johnstown what it would cost to get and rock out of my dogs nose, he said about $75 -$150. Why the difference? Because of a third party payer system! People dont care what it cost if they dont directly pay for it.

 

Or maybe because one is a human being and the other is a dog?

[wagner]

I do have a question on this whole mess, can the senate kill this? After reading up on a few things I got the feel that the senate can send this back to the house, then they have to vote on it again.

 

So in theory this could still fail, or did I miss something?

[greg1647545532]

I do have a question on this whole mess, can the senate kill this? After reading up on a few things I got the feel that the senate can send this back to the house, then they have to vote on it again.

 

So in theory this could still fail, or did I miss something?

 

The bill passed the house and then went to the senate, where it was expected to pass. It did, but with a few amendments. So, since it's different now, it needs to go back to the house before going to the pres. It's unlikely that the house will object to the amended bill. Still, politics is politics, who knows.

[HAOLE]

Or maybe because one is a human being and the other is a dog?

 

The same drugs and equipment are used.

[CRed05]

The same drugs and equipment are used.

 

Don't really want to argue this much, because I mostly agree with you on that, little bit of devil's advocate i guess, and its not really the main topic here, but the risks are completely different. Human life has a lot more value than an animal's does. I would also give all the money in the world to have my son be healthy, but with an animal there is a line.

 

What is comes down to basically is Doctors can charge more because they can get away with it. I would do the same thing.