GM lied to us...

[Skinner]

about the Volt.

 

http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-lied-about-the-electric-car?skyline=true&s=i

[Farkas]

Of course they did...

[Nitrousbird]

Well that sucks. Not that I cared much for it anyway.

 

The idea of using a gasoline engine as a "charger" for an electric-only driven plug-in hybrid was stupid. A small diesel would be the only intelligent choice, as it would be far more efficent at doing a charging task like that.

[Littleguy]

I wonder how this will compare to the Leaf?

[Skinner]

Well that sucks. Not that I cared much for it anyway.

 

The idea of using a gasoline engine as a "charger" for an electric-only driven plug-in hybrid was stupid. A small diesel would be the only intelligent choice, as it would be far more efficent at doing a charging task like that.

 

agreed I would like to see a small turbo diesel hybrid here.

[Farkas]

My 6-cylinder VW is almost as efficient as that piece of shit... c'mon. I see an average of 29mpg in mixed driving.

[SpaceGhost]

Bring the rabbit turbo hybrid diesel here! 70 mpg is good enough for now.

[Mallard]

I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible.

 

Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop.

[Nitrousbird]

I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible.

 

Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop.

I don't care about the "lie," but the design is kind of lame. It's just a more advanced hybrid...not a game changer by any stretch.

[SpaceGhost]

They should have gone out of business.

 

On the other hand the customer service people are getting after buying a Leaf I read is damn good.

[Bigbird]

I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible.

 

Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop.

 

Don't care how you flip it, 30-40mpg is a pretty far cry from 230...

[Doc1647545523]

I'm still holding out for this:

 

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76163

 

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r445/martyr65/vw-l1-car-concept2.jpg

[Mr. Jones]

I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible.

 

Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop.

 

 

Thank god they protected a fecal nugget of info nobody would want anyway.

[Draco-REX]

As long as it can go 10mi to work and 10mi back without burning a drop of fuel, then it's still ok. If it HAS to have the engine running when it's on, then it's just another dumb hybrid.

[zeitgeist57]

Waiting for America to wake up to the benefits of diesel technology...

[SpaceGhost]

If we used more Diesel, shipping in this country would skyrocket. Cost of everything would go way up. This is why we cannot have Diesel here.

[Dave1647545494]

As long as it can go 10mi to work and 10mi back without burning a drop of fuel, then it's still ok. If it HAS to have the engine running when it's on, then it's just another dumb hybrid.

 

it will go 40 miles at any speed on the battery only and can be plugged in so you never need the motor so for a commuter if you drive under 40 miles a day 230mpg is plausible. on extended trips it has the gasoline backup so it won't strand you then it gets 40mpg

[Mallard]

When they released the 230 mpg number it was plainly stated that those numbers were based on the EPA driving cycle used to calculate the number on your window sticker. It was a combination of driving 40 milez on full electric and having the engine turn on after that.

 

The early magazine tests say they averaged high twenty's to high thirty's MPG, while IN CHARGE SUSTAINING MODE and dependent on driving style. Getting over 20 mpg while hustling down twisty roads is pretty darn good, as is high thirty's while on the freeway. They also said that depending on driving style they were able to get high 20's to low 50's for all electrc range, which was not factored into their MPG figure.

[greg1647545532]

I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible.

 

Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop.

 

No, the problem is that they DID spell everything out. Extensively and obnoxiously. "NOT A PLUG IN HYBRID" "AN ENTIRELY NEW KIND OF CAR" "230MPG" "40 MILE ELECTRIC RANGE". We're not talking magazine guesswork, this all came from GM press, GM engineers, GM marketers, GM executives... they've been cramming their taglines down our throats since the word "BANKRUPTCY" was written on the wall at RenCen.

 

Now it's starting to hit the press and suddenly everything's starting to sound all greasy. "Err, it actually is a plug in hybrid" "It's not really a new kind of car, just a very advanced hybrid" "Worse mileage than a Prius" "Err, 40 electric miles maybe, maybe 25, who knows!"

 

Frankly their insistence that this wasn't a plug in-hybrid and their current reversal on that ruins their credibility. I'll believe nothing about this car until it comes out. Which sucks because I was amped up about this and was considering getting one if it lived up to the hype.

[Draco-REX]

I was expecting it to be a plug-in hybrid all the time, so that's not a surprise to me. You can't have ## miles of electric-only range without charging the batteries somehow. My interest in the Volt was the ability for it to be a short-distance car (to work and back, to the store and back, etc.) that doesn't use gas at all. That's where people use a lot of gas, and often get the worst mileage. As long as it fills that role, it could be a great step forward.

 

However, as said above, nothing is sure now until it actually hits the streets.

 

it will go 40 miles at any speed on the battery only and can be plugged in so you never need the motor so for a commuter if you drive under 40 miles a day 230mpg is plausible. on extended trips it has the gasoline backup so it won't strand you then it gets 40mpg

 

Well now they're saying 25. Granted it fits my conditions, but it still might run the engine. We'll see.

 

The Volt is Automatic, FWD, and a GM; three things that I just don't like. But the idea of having a work car that I never need to fill up is very tempting.

[greg1647545532]

Exactly. It still may end up being everything they claimed, but this new revelation raises a lot of questions. On the one hand, it makes sense not to connect the engine to the wheels -- you save on parts, price, complexity, and you can set up the engine so that it only ever has to run in a narrow band of maximum efficiency. On the other hand, electric motors do lose efficiency at a certain point, and it makes sense to have an assist at high speeds.

 

But doing both is baffling. If you've added the expense of connecting the engine to the wheels, then you may as well have the engine provide some of the power whenever it's running -- bypass all the losses of converting mechanical energy to electricity and back again. And for all we know that's exactly what they're doing and they're just not telling us. Because that would just make it like a plug-in Prius, and they can't sell that to the American public at this point.

[CRed05]

I think the first mistake GM made was putting an MPG rating on a 100% electric car. This is a 100% electric car that has a backup electric motor. Not a whole lot different that when Top Gear made their own electric car and then threw a diesel generator in the back. Unfortunately electricity is hard to measure by the gallon.

 

Take the Volt with a full charge and full tank of gas, and drive it until it can't go any further, then give me an MPG. It is completely possible for me to drive it to work and back and not use a single drop of gas, but at that point I want to know how many miles can I drive on $5 worth of electricity compared to $5 worth of gasoline.

 

But screw all that, just give me a diesel.

[ImUrOBGYN]

I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible.

 

Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop.

 

Some others already touched on some of these points however, Im stll curious as to how having the engine partially power the wheels increases fuel efficiency.

 

Toyota keeps their shit secret by not saying anything. GM kept it secret by lying and misleading the public. THey specifically and emphatically said the gas engine would not be driving the wheels, ever. THey touted the epa numbers that were incorrect as scripture. Using the old epa rules was bullshit and not only did they know it but so did the rest of the manufacturers because they made a big ruckus about it awhile back when gm first pulled their little story out their ass by adjustiing their hybrid/electric vehicles mpg's the same way GM was which resulted in hugely inflated mpg figures. HOwever, GM is the only one who stood behind those numbers even when others manu's were basically laughing. Why? It's pretty obvious why they'd lie.

 

For me, it hardly matters what the car can do when you've lost all credibility misleading me about it.

[twistedfocus1647545489]

Im stll curious as to how having the engine partially power the wheels increases fuel efficiency.

Maybe I misread it, but I think they said that the engine is there solely to charge the batteries and does not drive the wheels in any way. Much like the electric car with a backup generator analogy used above.

 

I think it was maybe a bad idea for GM to throw the 230MPG figure out there. As soon as I saw that I knew it would get twisted and people would be crying. I think alot of the problem is the public's perception. Partially flawed marketing perhaps, but mostly perception.

[Draco-REX]

I think the first mistake GM made was putting an MPG rating on a 100% electric car. This is a 100% electric car that has a backup electric motor. Not a whole lot different that when Top Gear made their own electric car and then threw a diesel generator in the back. Unfortunately electricity is hard to measure by the gallon.

 

Take the Volt with a full charge and full tank of gas, and drive it until it can't go any further, then give me an MPG. It is completely possible for me to drive it to work and back and not use a single drop of gas, but at that point I want to know how many miles can I drive on $5 worth of electricity compared to $5 worth of gasoline.

 

But screw all that, just give me a diesel.

 

When the Volt was first announced with the 40 mile range and battery capacities they listed, someone here figured that at AEP rates, a 12000 mile year where you didn't touch a drop of fuel would cost you about $186. Now the battery is different, so It's tough to say. But likely you'll be looking in the same neighborhood.

 

For comparison's sake, a 12000 mile year at a Prius-like 40mpg average at $2.50/gal is $750/yr. A good SUV average at 19mpg is $1578.95/yr. So even if the above estimate is off by as much as 200%, you're still getting a savings.