CRed05 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 So electricity will get you 64.5miles/$, and a gasoline SUV will get you about 7miles/$. If that's indeed correct, that's a pretty sweet deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Been in sales most of my life, and engineering the other parts. One thing that I have learned is "Under-promise and Over-deliver". This is really, really weak. Also, Even though the cost is much less per mile in DOLLARS, it is much higher in TIME. Charging at even the most efficient Quick charge stations available today is likely to take you 20 to 30 minutes (from the time you plug in), AND as the demand for such things increases, you are going to see new tarriff rates and new charges for Electricity suppliers, as well as new taxes, as well as new regs for the grid reliability standard. Transmission and distribution costs will be affected, and in states like Cali, where we have already seen that they have issues managing the grid (see: brownouts), who knows what the extra demand on mostly off peak hours (when folks will be charging their car at home) will do to their situation. Trust me, the Electric companies are going to cash in. Another thing to think about is that Electricity prices on the open market are most closely tied to natural gas prices, and with the increased demand in electricity, natural gas prices will rise as well. Theres a lot more to this "electric vehicle" push than most people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 So during years of development the engineers found a way to gain 10-15% efficiency at high speeds without adding any extra parts/cost, and now people want to bash GM for being 'liers' because during development they told you it's a pure electric car with an engine as a range extender. Well, in the last day nothing has changed. The car still goes ~40 miles before turning the engine on. The engine generates electricity to recharge the battery and provide electricity to the motor. The only difference is over 70 mph the engine will be partially coupled to to motor and provide some power to the wheels. The car still cannot move without the electric motor driving the wheels. GM promised the most efficient vehicle ever produced. They promised ~40 miles on an electric charge. They promised the Volt was a series hybrid unlike any other car on the road. They are delivering on all of those, but some Jalopnik writer has his panties in a bunch over semantics and wants to start some sort of campaign. We should be praising the engineers for finding ways to make the car better instead of crying about some inconsequential detail that changed throughout development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Well, in the last day nothing has changed. The car still goes ~40 miles before turning the engine on. The engine generates electricity to recharge the battery and provide electricity to the motor. The only difference is over 70 mph the engine will be partially coupled to to motor and provide some power to the wheels. The car still cannot move without the electric motor driving the wheels. All of this remains to be seen. The car has had very limited press access and so far results have been... mixed. However you want to spin this little snafu is fine, but I, for one, am not going to take any of these claims as anything other than marketing BS until some independent testers get to give the car a proper thrashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 True story, the Chevy Volt has been in our shop, right before it went on a boat to China two days later... It looks like a prius, and the interior is very nice, we were not allowed to look in the engine compartment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Been in sales most of my life, and engineering the other parts. One thing that I have learned is "Under-promise and Over-deliver". This is really, really weak. Also, Even though the cost is much less per mile in DOLLARS, it is much higher in TIME. Charging at even the most efficient Quick charge stations available today is likely to take you 20 to 30 minutes (from the time you plug in), AND as the demand for such things increases, you are going to see new tarriff rates and new charges for Electricity suppliers, as well as new taxes, as well as new regs for the grid reliability standard. Transmission and distribution costs will be affected, and in states like Cali, where we have already seen that they have issues managing the grid (see: brownouts), who knows what the extra demand on mostly off peak hours (when folks will be charging their car at home) will do to their situation. Trust me, the Electric companies are going to cash in. Another thing to think about is that Electricity prices on the open market are most closely tied to natural gas prices, and with the increased demand in electricity, natural gas prices will rise as well. Theres a lot more to this "electric vehicle" push than most people think. If your useage is under the 40 (25?) mile capacity of the batteries for the day, they you can charge the car overnight. No waiting there. As for charges, it's possible that electricity rates will go up if this type of car sees a wide acceptance. However, more likely the electric companies will be ecstatic about off-peak useage going up. Power plants do not shut off at night. They have to run 24/7/365 without fail. So they are ALWAYS generating power. As it stands now, a lot of the elctricity generated at night is wasted because there's not enough demand for the supply. Adding off-peak power useage will actually make life easier for the electric companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 According to Jalopnik today, "70mph" might actually be "30mph". http://jalopnik.com/5662923/poll-what-the-hybrid-is-the-chevy-volt Can't wait to get the full story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mitsumodder Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 ok, i just finished all my volt training here at the dealership. The funny thing is no matter how you drive it the engine is always going to run at some point to use up the fuel so it doesnt get "old" and also to keep the engine internals lubricated. So, you still have to buy fuel, and you have to have 220 run to your garage with the charging equipment installed by a certified contractor for the fast charge times. Using a regular 110 outlet will at least double the time it takes to recharge. Stupid car, stupid idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Did you get to drive it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 That's it, I'm adding solar panels to my roof and running a line directly to my garage to charge my Volt. Nah.....I'm going to take my money buy a used C6, boost it, drive it to Vegas and have some fun with hookers and blow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-Boost? Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Seriously, is/was anyone on here going to actually buy one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mitsumodder Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Hell no, I dont even want to work on them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Seriously, is/was anyone on here going to actually buy one of these? If the math worked out, yes. Unfortunately, it's complicated math with all the rebates and tax credits, made even more complicated by the fact that we have no idea what kind of performance/range it's actually going to get. When it comes out for real, I'll run the numbers, and if the numbers look good, I'll test drive one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 I think it's BS that people are making such a big deal about this. They 'lied' because they had a patent application that wasn't granted yet. Plus, the engine only PARTIALLY powers the wheels over 70 mph on the highway in order to INCREASE THE FUEL EFFICIENCY! Had they NOT done this people would be crying that GM didn't do everything they could to make the car as efficient as possible. Companies have to keep details about their projects secret in order to protect their intellectual property, until it's protected by patents. So they didn't spell everything out for the general public until the car was released. Big fucking whoop. No, that is BS. They claimed/hyped/marketed it as a 230mpg car-PERIOD. Fuck the fine print. Blame it on marketing hype, blame it on GM being the same shit company it was when we bailed it out, but even you GM fanboy, cant save face here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Stupid car, stupid idea. Thinking outside the box is never stupid. You're thinking too much like a consumer. A great quote from Henry Ford, regarding the first car he ever built: "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." When designing cars, GM has to into consideration how customers influence their designs. Customers have been doing that by buying more and more hybrids and "new technology" Customers today are demanding more efficient vehicles and less dependence on "how it's always been." I for one hate to hear that something is being done that way because that's the way it's always been done. BULLSHIT! Change or die man. Business and people, it applies to everyone. From your standpoint and opinion though, GM also has to balance the above with the fact that not everyone embraces change.The customer may not always know what's best. I don't personally see the "value" in my pocketbook for the Volt, however, I do give them credit for finally taking notice and moving the company in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 A great quote from Henry Ford, regarding the first car he ever built: "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." That's a great quote, and I'm stealing it for my line of business. FYI, Motor Trend beat the garbage out of a Volt and got 75 to 125mpg. I'm feeling a little better about this thing now... http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/13/127-mpg-what-motor-trend-got-driving-the-volt-in-the-rea/ Personally, I would rather buy a Volt over a Leaf...I need/want a car that can still take me to Pittsburgh or Cleveland and back. I look at the Volt as GM's best interpretation of a Prius (even though it's about 10 years late to the party) That being said, I'm still going diesel/stick shift before I get a hybrid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Thanks for the link, zietgeist. I waded through to the source blog for the "75mpg" run and here's my takeaway. First off, I'm going to get really sick of journalists spouting "mpg" numbers like that. Secondly: They took it on a 122 mile jaunt. Much ado was made of how much they thrashed on it, but for all their machismo it appears that this was a relatively normal drive. During which, they went 36.3 miles before the battery was depleted, then on the remainder of the trip achieved 52.4mpg. Based on those numbers, I'm inclined to agree that it's looking better. 52mpg is certainly reasonable/expected for a hybrid at this point, and 36 miles without the gas engine even so much as turning on is pretty close to GM's marketing claims. If anyone else finds any more test drives, post 'em up. I wanna see if these numbers hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 A great quote from Henry Ford, regarding the first car he ever built: "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." That is a great quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Based on those numbers, I'm inclined to agree that it's looking better. 52mpg is certainly reasonable/expected for a hybrid at this point, and 36 miles without the gas engine even so much as turning on is pretty close to GM's marketing claims. I agree, and disagree. Is it better? Hells yes, and bravo. Is it 230 miles to the freaking gallon? NO. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when you hang a huge banner over your entire floor operation and then spend millions telling the world one particular thing (which also happens to be the BIGGEST single reason to buy your product), then you better AT LEAST hit that freaking number. I don't care if you have to summon lesser demons from the nether regions of Courtney Love to work necromancy to make it run on the souls of drowned kittens, you better make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 GM never claimed 230mpg, they claimed 230mpg-e, which was some stupid made-up number the EPA told them to claim. The EPA has since dropped that test because they realized it was retarded. Should GM have advertised it? Perhaps not, but we've entered an era where one-size-fits-all EPA ratings are essentially worthless and testers/marketers/journalists/consumers haven't quite caught up. 36.3 miles per charge, 52mpg thereafter. That works for me. But that's just for this one specific type of vehicle, so it's not all that useful as a yardstick. All I can do with that is compare the Volt to other Volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbird Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 I agree, and disagree. Is it better? Hells yes, and bravo. Is it 230 miles to the freaking gallon? NO. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when you hang a huge banner over your entire floor operation and then spend millions telling the world one particular thing (which also happens to be the BIGGEST single reason to buy your product), then you better AT LEAST hit that freaking number. I don't care if you have to summon lesser demons from the nether regions of Courtney Love to work necromancy to make it run on the souls of drowned kittens, you better make it work. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Best thing posted so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 That's a great quote, and I'm stealing it for my line of business. I've always liked it and am currently using it on my current customers too. It's so true it's not funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) I agree, and disagree. Is it better? Hells yes, and bravo. Is it 230 miles to the freaking gallon? NO. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when you hang a huge banner over your entire floor operation and then spend millions telling the world one particular thing (which also happens to be the BIGGEST single reason to buy your product), then you better AT LEAST hit that freaking number. I don't care if you have to summon lesser demons from the nether regions of Courtney Love to work necromancy to make it run on the souls of drowned kittens, you better make it work. Chevy claimed that 230mpg number based on the EPA's recently revised methods of testing. It wasn't initially put out as an official number either. They ran with it from a marketing end as the EPA pushed them to use a methodology created specifically for the Chevy Volt and other plug-in hybrids. So they did. There was skepticism of the claim on many levels from day one. The methodology itself is still not set in stone and is preliminary.They were open on the fact that it's overall greatest EV range would be 40 miles on an electric charge and 300 miles after that.They weren't even set on whether it was to built with a 10gal gas tank even.Preliminary reports even showed it getting 34 mpg overall. (pulled from my memory of reading about it.) GM however did come clean and said it will get 40 mpg once the battery is depleted. Cars.com even stated in their initial look at the prototype that it will likely never get 230 mpg in the real world. So in the end, it's no shocker. Hell, give my wife the Volt and I'm pretty sure she could get 230mph out of it. She drives less than 20 miles round trip each day and thus even going on a few errands outside that, she could pretty much hit a very high MPG number without issue. In fact, she wouldn't use any gas during the week and would not likely put may more than that on during the weekend. That said, I'm not about to spend $40k plus on a vehicle if that's all she's doing. Not enough ROI or Bling on the car to justify it for me or her. What really pisses me off is while it's a nice car, it's not WORTH $40k. They are only starting it there as there's such a high rebate on this new hybrid from it's Gov't rebate program that the end user won't actually pay that much. However, I can see right through that shit....GM Is essentially taking that rebate for themselves by setting the price higher than what it should be. IMO, it's a $28k car all day no matter what. Let the customer have it for $20k after the rebate and THEN I could see them selling a shit load of them. Edited October 13, 2010 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 What really pisses me off is while it's a nice car, it's not WORTH $40k. They are only starting it there as there's such a high rebate on this new hybrid from it's Gov't rebate program that the end user won't actually pay that much. However, I can see right through that shit....GM Is essentially taking that rebate for themselves by setting the price higher than what it should be. IMO, it's a $28k car all day no matter what. Let the customer have it for $20k after the rebate and THEN I could see them selling a shit load of them. This is the key. For this car to really become revolutionary, it needs to be accessible to the average family. I don't know many average families that can afford a $40k daily. Unfortunately, GM also needs this car to 'save' them and justify their bailout. So they can't sell it at a loss. I don't know if they changed the battery pack or not, but the initial battery pack they designed for the Volt cost GM around $16K to make. Once you add in computers, motors, the gas engine, driveline, etc, there's no way it could go for a reasonable price.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
,,,,,,comma,,,,,, Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Who caressssssssssssssss, give GM if a break. Would you guys like it if we all drove Hondas and Hyundais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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