Who knows Suspension?

[Xyster101]

I want to upgrade my suspension and I have no idea what to get. A few people mentioned linear spring rates for the track, that is about it. I have a 1991 MR2 turbo which I do a lot of road course track days with and put maybe 3,000 miles on the street with. I don't care if the ride is harsh or stiff as I am concerned with track performance. Here are some leads for used upgrades, but again, I don't know what is good to get.

 

Car Specs:

2950 lbs with me

~1300lbs front ~1600lbs rear

Currently Macpherson Stock Struts

 

 

"Product: Tein Super Street

Details: Great shape, height and damper adjustable, comes with front endlinks (needed cuz its shorter than stock). OEM strut mounts (one of the mount has some rust, has some water stuck on it for a short time at the shop), no leaks, no funny noise. Bolt it on and enjoy"

 

Front = 4 kg/mm

Rear = 8 kg/mm

Tein installation guide:

http://www.tein.com/tech_info/inst/ky96u.pdf

Price: $675 USD Shipped (5-7 days with tracking#)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k217/Rexchris66/MR2_SW20%20Parts/Coilover/IMG_4914.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k217/Rexchris66/MR2_SW20%20Parts/Coilover/IMG_4917.jpg

 

 

I did not get a lot of info about these, but they are Ohlins and the ones on their site for other cars run from $2,500 and up. These have been on a drag MR2 before. Being sold by a Mr2 performance shop out in Tx.

Ohlin's supension set - Ohlins struts, these were 1) incredibly expensive when new, and 2) amazingly adjustable: 24 way or something. They are inverted style struts too. They have white progressive rate springs installed. The fronts have camber adjustable pillow ball mounts installed. TRD gymkhana race springs. These are amazing struts. $700 shipped.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1091/5110351408_3594338964_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1260/5110360136_e6a10b7217_z.jpg

 

 

Next are JIC FLT-TAR that have adjustable camber plates and 15 way adjustable compression and rebound settings. These have linear spring rates, I don't know what the rates are though. These are the most expensive on the site listed below for MR2 cars.

 

 

Used 15k still good condition.

Dirty in the pictures but you can clean it up.

No leaks, just decided to go with a more stock setup.

$850 shipped, 800 picked up. (located in san jose, ca)

 

Info: http://www.streetperformance.com/part/jicmagic/complete-coilover-kit/1265629-sw20flta2.html

 

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/needfd_mr2/parts%20for%20sale/P1020455.jpg

 

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/needfd_mr2/parts%20for%20sale/P1020456.jpg

 

 

Anyone have any input on these or another brand? Should I just get some Koni inserts and H&R springs?

Edited October 24, 2010 by Xyster101

[Draco-REX]

I'm not familiar with the MR2 world, so I can't give you specifics. Unfortunately, what's good for one car might be junk for another. But there are a couple things I can offer.

 

1. You should be looking at coilovers. While they're overkill and often over sprung/damped for street use, for track use they're a must. The ability to corner weight your car will help you tremendously. The Ohlins, while excellent struts (I have a set on my STI) are not valved for track use and are only 1-way adjustable (they have 24 clicks).

 

2. You'll want coilovers that are ride height adjustable and not just pre-load adjustable. The difference is that you can turn the damper body inside the spring perch to lengthen or shorten the overall body. Neither of these coilover offers seem to have that. A good giveaway is the lack of helper springs.

 

3. Coilovers need to be rebuilt periodically. I would look into who can rebuild them and what it will cost. If you buy a used set, unless you KNOW they are barely used, plan to have them rebuilt and add that to the cost.

 

4. Again, I'm not sure if Tein or JIC are good in the MR2 world. As Subarus go, they're considered junk. I'd look into KW. I'm not sure if they have MR2 offerings, but if they do, they offer tons of valving and spring options and can be rebuilt here in the US. Talk to TurnInConcepts.com to see if they can get you a set for your MR2 or if they can point you in the right direction.

 

That's all I've got. Good luck.

[AJ]

it looks like the last set is ride height adjustable independent of preload adjustment.

[Draco-REX]

it looks like the last set is ride height adjustable independent of preload adjustment.

 

Ahh, looks that way. Good eyes. Still not sure about the lack of helper springs, but it's possible the MR2 just doesn't have enough travel to need them.

[AJ]

why would it need helper springs?

 

a coil over that doesn't have independent ride height adjustment would be the one that needs the helper springs not the one that does have independent ride height adjustment.

[Squidward]

Talk to Crossle on here. He knows MR2s and does a shit load of autox

[Flybye]

I would just to with the Tein's and look into Swift springs.

[Farkas]

First of all, I would never buy second hand coilovers online. It doesn't matter how much info the previous owner states about them, you simply never know what condition they're in. You're just going to end up getting blown coilovers regardless, and dealing with rebuilding them will be a PITA.

 

However, given the choices that you're looking at, the JICs are the best of the bunch for a couple reasons. They're adjustable inverted monotube struts and are both preload and height adjustable. On the downside, JIC as a manufacturer has a history of being shady when it comes to rebuilds and even the actual quality of their products... basically, they don't give a fuck about their customers.

 

The TEINs are straight garbage, don't even waste your time. As much as I have read about them, people talk about how messed up the dampers are when they put them on shock dynos. Not to mention, they aren't "full-tap," meaning they aren't height adjustable aside from fucking up the spring preload.

 

Yes, Ohlins make great products, but that setup you're looking at is all wrong for what you seem to be interested in. Progressive spring rates are great for a car that sees public roads more than tracks because of the forgiving ride quality. Linear spring rates, However, are a must on the track... research the difference!

 

In my opinion, save your pennies for a nice new coilover set with exactly what you're looking for. Ordered from best to good on my list would be: Zeal, Silk Road, KW, H&R, Cusco, Tanabe and JIC. Helper springs or not, a good set of coilovers have Linear primary springs, full-tap, preload, and dampening adjustable.

[Das Borgen]

Koni must make a coilover set for your car, no?

How about AST? AST;s customer service is astronomically good and it's a monotube damper (read: frickin awesome)

How about Ground Control? <-- Koni based systems

 

I know for sure H&R and KW make coilovers for your car.....<----see www.tirerack.com

 

yes linear springs are a must and make sure they're not shietty springs....... some spring will near coil bind (read: useless) if the coils are too thick.....I'd recommend getting coilover springs from a good company such as Hypercoil, Vogtland or Swift

 

if you diecide to go for a KW kit, lemme know, they sent me a 100 dollar rebate i don t need at all since I'm planning on going for a Koni shock based coilover spring with Vogtland springs (TC Kline's Trumatch system)

[Das Borgen]

by the way..Ohlins is on par with other HUGE damper names such as Moton, JRZ, Pennske......

 

 

I wish I had Ohlins on my motorcycle

[Aaron]

Bilstein.

[Crossle]

Bilstein.

 

Great for Europeans. Koni's and TRD springs are the "hot" choice for a non coil over set up in the MR2 world.

 

There are people with far more knowledge than me on suspension set-ups in here already, so I will refrain from technical advice. Excellent point on the corner weighting which I am looking forward to doing this winter with mine.

 

If it were me I would NOT get used coilovers, I did and regret it since mine need rebuilt. Of course I bought an entire new car to pull them off of, but I feel like down the road I will be changing the set-up and selling mine for cheapo.

 

I feel like Tein is WAY over rated, it's like Monster they just have their name in everything and that is how they are known.

[Xyster101]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I really did not want to look at new coil overs as they are $2,000 and up, but I don't want to deal with the hassle of blown ones. Any idea on the life of a coil over before rebuilding?

I was looking at tracking my car one more year and then going with a race car like a spec miata. For $7k I can buy a race car. For $3,500 I can put suspension, seat, harness, and roll bar in mine. So it is not much more for a built car, just don't have that much money laying around.

[Captain_Panic1647545539]

I would try a good spring/strut insert combo before you dive into coilovers. Spring and damper rate will be a major issue for you if you buy a used set. One of them was listed for a drag car, which will have completely different spring and damper rates than what you'll be needing for a road course. That means pretty much buying a different set anyway.

 

Check the racing section on MR2oc, as there is a lot of specific info you'll want to read up on. (in case you haven't already).

[Farkas]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I really did not want to look at new coil overs as they are $2,000 and up, but I don't want to deal with the hassle of blown ones. Any idea on the life of a coil over before rebuilding?

I was looking at tracking my car one more year and then going with a race car like a spec miata. For $7k I can buy a race car. For $3,500 I can put suspension, seat, harness, and roll bar in mine. So it is not much more for a built car, just don't have that much money laying around.

 

Well, if there's one place I recommend not skimping out on a car... it's Suspension parts. This is really going to make or break a fast driver, and a fast car. You can't really put a mileage on a coilover before they're recommended for rebuilding. In just about every case it all differs because of the usage, how well you take care of them and how long they've been around. Some last much longer than others, and some just outright suck in the first place.

 

With Ground Control being mentioned, avoid coilover sleeves... JUNK. TEIN coilovers are just about as useful as sleeves. lol.

[Crossle]

I don't doubt that mine went bad due to cheapo coilovers to begin with (K sport) and driving constantly on Ohio's finest roads all the time.

[BIGGU]

stay very far away from Teins, I had a set of flex on my Miata and they blew out in just over a year. the car was a weekend car / monthy track whore as well.

[AudiOn19s]

It's already been summed up by most but I'll make a couple statements again.

 

Don't buy used coilovers unless A) you KNOW they have very low mileage (5000k or less) or B) get them cheap enough that you can justify going in having them rebuilt prior to putting them on the car. Most companies will rebuild for $100-150 a shock. On lower end shocks usually the math doesn't work on buying used and planning on rebuild vs. just buying new. Any coilovers with 15k miles should be pretty well done and just assume you need a rebuild.

 

If you're on a budget a good spring / shock combo (new) might be the best logical step. You'll get improvement over the worn products on the car and while you won't be able to corner weight or mess with valving at least you know you'll have products on the car that are matched to each other and fresh so that they're doing what they're supposed to do.

[spankis]

There seem to be some knowledgeable people in here, so maybe answer me this.

 

I have coilovers on my car, and to bring the rear into alignment, I use a set of adjustable camber and toe arms. These right here:

 

http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/control-arms-na-2-500.jpg

 

I have developed some bad squeaks in the rear, with less than 5k on the control arms. It seems to be coming from the inner links of the arms, which are the non-greasable endlinks seen in the pic. Is there a more durable type of link I could replace these with? I don't quite daily drive the car, but I do drive it a few days a week at least, and I'd prefer not to be replacing these once a year....

[Farkas]

There seem to be some knowledgeable people in here, so maybe answer me this.

 

I have coilovers on my car, and to bring the rear into alignment, I use a set of adjustable camber and toe arms. These right here:

 

http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/control-arms-na-2-500.jpg

 

I have developed some bad squeaks in the rear, with less than 5k on the control arms. It seems to be coming from the inner links of the arms, which are the non-greasable endlinks seen in the pic. Is there a more durable type of link I could replace these with? I don't quite daily drive the car, but I do drive it a few days a week at least, and I'd prefer not to be replacing these once a year....

 

Heim joints like that have a tendency to bind and make noise in general if they don't see regular use. There's really nothing you can do short of replacing them, but you could always take them off the car and use some lubricant or the similar and try and clean up the joints while working them loose. Lucky for you, you can just purchase the heim ends separately.

[greg1647545532]

Not much to add, except I also would never buy used shocks or coilovers, and I also hate Tein.

 

I got simple coilovers (non-adjustable shocks) from a reputable brand because I wanted something solid and reliable that would hold up for lots of HPDEs. It's not a race-winning setup, but who cares? Nobody wins at track days. I'm with AudiOn19s -- I'd rather have the best shock/spring combo than either a used high-end coilover or a gazillion-way adjustable taiwanese piece of crap.

[Xyster101]

I'd rather have the best shock/spring combo than either a used high-end coilover or a gazillion-way adjustable taiwanese piece of crap.

That is funny! I am doing HPDE's also, maybe TT by the end of next summer.

 

Thanks guys. I currently have Tockiko 5-way Struts with Intrax Springs . I have read online that the springs are garbage. People seem to like the Tockiko struts ( I do too) but mostly on Honda forums where people like to lower their cars. Think I would be ok just getting some HK springs for now?

[Das Borgen]

Heim joints like that have a tendency to bind and make noise in general if they don't see regular use. There's really nothing you can do short of replacing them, but you could always take them off the car and use some lubricant or the similar and try and clean up the joints while working them loose. Lucky for you, you can just purchase the heim ends separately.

+1

 

a good silicone or lithium based grease (any auto parts place will have it, NAPA) will help

[Das Borgen]

if you're only getting springs, I strongly suggest you spring (pun intended) for the best.....Swift

 

 

the fact that they use a light material of their own is great

1)less material means less weight

2) less material means thinner coils

3) thinner coils means lots os spring travel until coil bind...(read: it stays linear for long compression distances and keeps the car feeling the same without any spikes in behavior)

 

http://www.swiftsprings.com/

 

 

good luck!