TA In Progress Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Unions... thank them. Not all manufacturing was unionized. I won't argue that unions don't play into outsourcing, but corporate greed can't be ruled out either. Edited January 11, 2011 by TA In Progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'll try and see if I can find proof in that the next time I'm at the grocery store. I swear this past week, I saw more foreign company stickers on produce than I've seen in a long time. Not doubting your point, but to see tangerines from Spain, Bananas from Portugal and Berries from Mexico.....meh.....I couldn't buy them. We tend to not be able to keep up with supply when the government is paying farmers to not farm. Sure does make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewhop Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Mostly agreed! I don't know how we'd be competitive on labor rates though? Do you have good resources on this to share, I'd like to hear about the rationale / data etc... I read data a while back. Here is some basic info in which I was referring to. http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=2050 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Flyer1647545514 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 America will not be moving from a service economy to a manufacturing economy anytime soon. The first and most important step would be to get rid of Wal-Mart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 From an economic model standpoint, economies evolve. Basically they start out as farming and selling basic goods, then move into a manufacturing phase, then move primarily toward a service based economy. 1. How do we bring manuf to the us? Either decrease post secondary education, set a price ceiling for some reason on manufacturing outputs, or create some huge exogenous demand. 2. See 1. No we do not want to bring more to the US. It does not lead to full employment of our workforce. Not employment in the typical sence. I'm talking underemployment, I.e. a law grad working as a cnc operator. He is technically "employed" but not fully because his earning potential is much higher. Basically our workforce in the us, at a snapshot, is highly educated, and trained for service based positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 one thing that would really help bring Jobs, (not just manufacturing) into the US would be the instituting of the fair tax (with getting rid of the corporate tax) this would level the playing field without adding tariffs. getting rid of unions would be great, at a goodrich plant near me thats unionized, the union employee makes $40-60k/yr. which is pretty good for not doing much and not having a degree. also another method to get us to consume more and export more would be to undervalue our currency like China does, only downside is we dont produce much fuel compared to what we export and use, if we could solve that problem the economy would flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Import Tarrifs. Simply make it a smart decisions for businesses to make things in the US, and they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Let me ask you this.. why bring manufacturing back to the US? If you are talking about jobs and bringing money back to the US, I can name one cash crop that would probably provide more jobs and money for the government than manufacturing jobs would, if only it were legalized. "I think we should legalize marijuana in this country, so potheads have nothing to talk about ever again." I agree with unions being the biggest problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 "I think we should legalize marijuana in this country, so potheads have nothing to talk about ever again." I agree with unions being the biggest problem. Fuck yes to both of these. I live for the day when I don't have to hear the legalize pot trash again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have nothing to do with the stuff, but I see the huge potential it could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosted98gst Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have nothing to do with the stuff, but I see the huge potential it could have. Twinkies and hoho's agrees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaddyBuiltRacing Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just did a paper about this very topic last quarter. We will never be the manufacturing country we once were. 1. Its cheaper to make everything in China. Average worker there is paid .57 cent a day!! 2. Automization is the end all/kill all to plant jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbalt Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 To clarify for some 1. How do we bring manufacturing back to the United States? It depends on what type of manufacturing. But short story is make stuff that people need. Make them in the US. Employ US citizens to make them....or robots. The word "need" can be somewhat subjective. People don't "need" much. 2. Do we even want to considering the effect it would have on both pricing and the environment. Possibly not. I think that we should most definitely manufacture things that we need. Many people forget the fact that a good infrastructure is essential to security. Processes of manufacture that are not sustainable maybe should be made sustainable or phased out. Question: Why does everyone hate on the union as a cause of lack of manufacturing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Question: Why does everyone hate on the union as a cause of lack of manufacturing? Unions make it more expensive to manufacture because it raises the cost of labor, therefor they build factories in China because labor is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Gump 9 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Import Tarrifs. Amen to this. I know for a fact in Vietnam any new car is subject to 200% import tax. In Korea certain cars have to pay up to 700% import tax. Why can't we do the same things here is US? Put a hefty import tax on goods that can be made here so the US companies can compete and the government can collect their $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Import Tarrifs. Simply make it a smart decisions for businesses to make things in the US, and they will. this. fair trade. End entitlement. have americans choose to live below their means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleguy Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Import tariffs that I have seen at work in South America to help domestic businesses just seem to make prices go up for the consumers. Personally I would not want them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 screw tariffs, fair tax FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbalt Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Unions make it more expensive to manufacture because it raises the cost of labor, therefor they build factories in China because labor is cheap. That's what I was thinking but what about competition between unionized and non unionized? Surely every manufacturing industry in the US can't be unionized can they? Verizon and ATT both compete and one is unionized and one is not. I don't know if I agree with unions being eliminated or banned unless the employees came to some agreement about it. I know some people that have been helped and feel positively towards their union but some people find their union to be burdensome and even corrupt at times. I think it would depend on the situation. Getting rid of unions may produce cheaper labor for companies so they can compete easier with foreign companies but is that necessarily what we want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Getting rid of unions may produce cheaper labor for companies so they can compete easier with foreign companies but is that necessarily what we want? Do you have zero understanding of business? If China company sells a product for $1.00 and USA company with union sells same product for $3.00 what product will sell more? Unions are not needed anymore, we have lawyers now that can do that job of keeping useless workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Nuke india, nuke china, start over. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbalt Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Do you have zero understanding of business? If China company sells a product for $1.00 and USA company with union sells same product for $3.00 what product will sell more? . I have no clue why you always jump to conclusions. First off, just because something is cheaper does not mean that more people will choose it over something that is more expensive. If that were the case everyone on this forum would be driving geo metros and I certainly don't see that happening anytime soon. There are other dimensions to consider such as quality, safety, etc. What I was referring to is if we actually need more manufacturing in the first place. If we WANT to bring back more manufacturing. If we are to get into an arms race of manufacturing with China and/or India, I do not see us as the victor. Labor is way cheaper in other parts of the world. Also, you have glossed over the point about union vs non union competition in the US. They compete together in the same marketplace somewhat tenaciously. Unions have a place in society but I do not think they are needed everywhere or even most places. My final point in this is do we want corporations to get larger? Personally, I would like to see corporations as we know them wiped out. Sure they ultimately provide cheap stuff but at what cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have no clue why you always jump to conclusions. First off, just because something is cheaper does not mean that more people will choose it over something that is more expensive. If that were the case everyone on this forum would be driving geo metros and I certainly don't see that happening anytime soon. There are other dimensions to consider such as quality, safety, etc. What I was referring to is if we actually need more manufacturing in the first place. If we WANT to bring back more manufacturing. If we are to get into an arms race of manufacturing with China and/or India, I do not see us as the victor. Labor is way cheaper in other parts of the world. Also, you have glossed over the point about union vs non union competition in the US. They compete together in the same marketplace somewhat tenaciously. Unions have a place in society but I do not think they are needed everywhere or even most places. My final point in this is do we want corporations to get larger? Personally, I would like to see corporations as we know them wiped out. Sure they ultimately provide cheap stuff but at what cost? There was no specific industry set, people in general will opt for a cheaper alternative all things being equal. That is provided there is no huge gap in quality of the two items. The US needs manufacturing jobs, our service based economy will fail even more in the future. If you read the rest of this thread it is laid out pretty clear how to stop cheap imports into the US, the same way those countries stop our products. Unions are a parasite on the workplace. Have you ever had to deal with a union? I had a union leader threaten me if I pressed an issue against a union member in the workplace. Even though the union work was in the wrong, incompetent, and general useless. The location could not get rid of him because of the union and he continued to make it difficult for me to do my job. Wipe out corporations? What are you a professor or someone else that does not live in the real world? I hate to tell you this is not the Oregon Trail, we don’t live in the olden days, and corporations are going to get bigger. If you don’t like that maybe you should move to an old territory of Soviet Russia, I think it would make everybody happy… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 hey I know lets all be hippies and talk about how evil the big bad corporations are and go back to living like the field peasants of medieval Europe, sounds like they had a way better life than we do now I find it ironic that the people that complain about how much we are killing the environment from using electricity or complain about how we shouldn't have any corporations are doing their complaining online using computers bought from corporations, that are built from parts manufactured overseas by corporations, and sucking down plenty of electricity every step of the way to do it. If someone TRULY cared to make a difference they would recycle their computer and never use one again rather than just bitching about how other people should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 hey I know lets all be hippies and talk about how evil the big bad corporations are and go back to living like the field peasants of medieval Europe, sounds like they had a way better life than we do now I find it ironic that the people that complain about how much we are killing the environment from using electricity or complain about how we shouldn't have any corporations are doing their complaining online using computers bought from corporations, that are built from parts manufactured overseas by corporations, and sucking down plenty of electricity every step of the way to do it. If someone TRULY cared to make a difference they would recycle their computer and never use one again rather than just bitching about how other people should do it. I still think you, myself, and Drewhop should run for political office. The world would hate the truth that would be thrown at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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