Guest Hal Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I consider myself an agnostic. I came to the conclusion long ago that there are 3 possible ways for there to be a universal truth regarding these questions. First case: There is no god, gods, or extranatural beings. This is not my personal belief, but its one of the possible truths. It does nothing to explain the greater mysteries of why we are here and how we got here. Second case: There is a God, gods, or extranatural beings that may or may not interfere with us. This is also not my personal belief. I believe it is arrogant to assume that, if the truth is that there exist things that have power over us, that we are so special that it/they would care enough to interfere. However, this is a very good method to explain the mysteries of life and allows people to make sense of an otherwise confusing existence. Third case: There is no being, but the deity/deities we worship are actually ourselves. This is my personal belief. I believe that there exists a possibility of some extranatural being that has a hand in our lives, but that it only exists because we caused it to exist by acting in a way as if it existed. I believe this because it is immeasurable, like so much of the universe. It presumes a certain amount of arrogance, but also an amount of humility. My overarching belief is that, whatever the truth is, that in our physical state, we are not meant to know it. If we were, humans collectively would have figured out the truth and come to the same conclusion. Thats why I don't worry about it. If I'm meant to know it, it will happen. Maybe I need to die to know it. I don't know. I think, most importantly, that if we were blessed with the gift of life by an omnipotent being, we were not meant to squander that gift spending any time trying to figure out why or fighting with others over the hypothetical answers to questions no one has the unarguable answers to. Probably the best post this thread will have. How do you believe we create another being, existing outside the bounds of our own consciousness, with our beliefs? Are you using a dimensional/extrasensory theory in this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 1: Does God exist? If yes, why do you think so? If no, why do you think not? 1(a): Can the existence of God be proven or disproven scientifically or logically? 2: How do you think the universe was created? (i.e., Not just the big bang, but what cause it) 2(a): Is there a sound basis for the theory of intelligent design? 3: If God exists as an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent being why does evil exist? 1: No one knows. People who claim they know are 100% full of shit. Religious people think there is a god because that's whats been told to them by their parents, people around them, church, bible (or that religion's book of choice). People who don't believe in god are looking at facts, science, logic and making the best guess they can. 1a. Yes, I believe it that's the only way to prove there's a god, besides him making a personal appearance. 2: I don't know, and no one really does. I personally believe that there has always been matter. It's a really hard thing for humans to comprehend...always was and always will be. We like to think of things having a beginning and an end. 2a: It's hard for me to think that there is a sound basis for intelligent design. Early humans were looking for answers, and with the intelligence, tools and science available to them, that's the best they could come up with. It's not impossible though. 3: This is probably my main argument as to why I think religion is bullshit. You have god that knows how everything is going to end up, he knows how you think, what your future actions will be...but then he tells you that your decisions and actions will determine whether you go to heaven or hell. "I'm going to create Jim, he will be a murderer, he will kill an innocent 2 year old that doesn't even have the mental ability to know the difference between right and wrong. So the 2 year old gets the ultimate punishment for no reason and Jim has no choice to be a murderer because that's how he was pre-programmed. PS Everyone has free will" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 3: This is probably my main argument as to why I think religion is bullshit. You have god that knows how everything is going to end up, he knows how you think, what your future actions will be...but then he tells you that your decisions and actions will determine whether you go to heaven or hell. "I'm going to create Jim, he will be a murderer, he will kill an innocent 2 year old that doesn't even have the mental ability to know the difference between right and wrong. So the 2 year old gets the ultimate punishment for no reason and Jim has know choice to be a murderer because that's how he was pre-programmed. PS Everyone has free will" Read some of the later writings about what God is. They address some of the limitations he would face and also address that with limited free will there can be no absolute knowledge of what we will do (i.e., there will be an inevitable margin of error). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Read some of the later writings about what God is. They address some of the limitations he would face and also address that with limited free will there can be no absolute knowledge of what we will do (i.e., there will be an inevitable margin of error). By writings you mean the bible right? I also have a hard time believing writings that were made by some pissed of jewish person because he was forced to live in a cave by the wealthy romans, in a time when people thought the earth was flat...and all kinds of nonsense. Like The Oracle in Ancient Greece, I believe, who would make "prophecies" and all kinds of predictions....turns out the building was on some fault line where toxic gas was leaking out causing hallucinations. Edit: The Oracle of Delphi http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article611319.ece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 People are stupid in general. Just about everything that wasn't nailed down was previously thought to be a god or some divine entity with power over you. "Oh crap, I've pissed off the lightening god and he has struck my vessel down, should have sacrificed more sheep" Science: " FYI: It's just electricty asshole " Problem :gabe: ? :fuuuu: Sacrificed sheep and virgins for nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Probably the best post this thread will have. How do you believe we create another being, existing outside the bounds of our own consciousness, with our beliefs? Are you using a dimensional/extrasensory theory in this one? I'm using no theory besides my own life's experience. Consider; snowflakes are allegedly 100% unique and never replicate. However, can you tell me that out of the infinite snowflakes that have fallen on this earth, that two have never been the same? Some are going to choose to believe that no two are the same, and some are going to believe that no matter how ridiculously small the chance, that two identical snowflakes have been produced. Still others are going to argue that it has happened more than once. People could spend lifetimes trying to find proof of one point of view or the other, and no matter how much proof there is, the others will never believe them. To those who believe, their belief makes it so. To those who do not, their belief makes it so. People like me are going to ask, why does it matter? There might be, there might not be, but why not just enjoy the look of a fresh snowfall on a landscape. Thats my approach to life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickey4271647545519 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Your turn Hal. Answer your own questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 By writings you mean the bible right? I also have a hard time believing writings that were made by some pissed of jewish person because he was forced to live in a cave by the wealthy romans, in a time when people thought the earth was flat...and all kinds of nonsense. Like The Oracle in Ancient Greece, I believe, who would make "prophecies" and all kinds of predictions....turns out the building was on some fault line where toxic gas was leaking out causing hallucinations. Edit: The Oracle of Delphi http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article611319.ece No, not the bible. I'm talking about writings by philosophers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I'm using no theory besides my own life's experience. Consider; snowflakes are allegedly 100% unique and never replicate. However, can you tell me that out of the infinite snowflakes that have fallen on this earth, that two have never been the same? Some are going to choose to believe that no two are the same, and some are going to believe that no matter how ridiculously small the chance, that two identical snowflakes have been produced. Still others are going to argue that it has happened more than once. People could spend lifetimes trying to find proof of one point of view or the other, and no matter how much proof there is, the others will never believe them. To those who believe, their belief makes it so. To those who do not, their belief makes it so. People like me are going to ask, why does it matter? There might be, there might not be, but why not just enjoy the look of a fresh snowfall on a landscape. Thats my approach to life. I was just trying to wrap my head around the concept of people's beliefs creating a being/deity. That's a perfectly logical way to live life. It's probably the happier way to live. I prefer to look for answers to things, it's just personality type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Your turn Hal. Answer your own questions. Why?:gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickey4271647545519 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Why?:gabe: Why not?:masturboy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Why not?:masturboy: Cause then I couldn't play both sides?:fuckyeah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickey4271647545519 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Cause then I couldn't play both sides?:fuckyeah: Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2pointslow Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 chat box discussion > this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spam Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 We will never know how we were all created, more specifically, what caused the big bang and the matter which encompassed it, until we have a complete and full understanding of the universe. I dont think either the existence or non of god conflicts with any theorys the science has come up with until this point. Reason being is most of the scientific community is more concerned with what happened after the big bang, and how things have come to be from then, to now. Finally, i really dont want to know one way or another. I, as many others, cant fathom the size of the universe, or any of the number of unexplainable events that happen in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have not read any of the replies, just the OP. God does not exist. Period. Organized Religion is a thorn in the side of humanity. Believing in a higher being (for yourself) is fine, but don't force it upon me (or others). How were things "created"? I like a thought that Carl Sagan had. Everything that is, always was. The "Big Bang" did happen. Things traveled outwards until it slowed to a point that it stopped, and came back together. Once it got together enough, another "Big Bang". This cycle goes on forever, and each cycle takes billions of years. :thumbup: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have not read any of the replies, just the OP. God does not exist. Period. Organized Religion is a thorn in the side of humanity. Believing in a higher being (for yourself) is fine, but don't force it upon me (or others). How were things "created"? I like a thought that Carl Sagan had. Everything that is, always was. The "Big Bang" did happen. Things traveled outwards until it slowed to a point that it stopped, and came back together. Once it got together enough, another "Big Bang". This cycle goes on forever, and each cycle takes billions of years. :thumbup: KillJoy Carl Sagan also said we are all the stuff of stars. Meaning that energy was converted into other forms, changing matter, and creating everything we know today. I think the statement you used is incomplete. So, what created the first big bang? Are we simply one universe inside a multiverse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 So, what created the first big bang? Are we simply one universe inside a multiverse? I tend to believe this: What is here, has always been. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no Galaxy in a Locket or civilization in a Locker. :megusta: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I tend to believe this: What is here, has always been. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no Galaxy in a Locket or civilization in a Locker. :megusta: KillJoy That's not really an acceptable philosophic argument. Something had to be the beginning. Divine? Not necessarily. There has to be some natural force that creates an orderly universe (yes, ours is orderly). I get the closed universe theory, it's just incomplete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I get the closed universe theory, it's just incomplete. Okay. KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Okay. KillJoy Stop being boring! You're supposed to get in another point here. Damn you Steve, don't let me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 That's not really an acceptable philosophic argument. Something had to be the beginning. Divine? Not necessarily. There has to be some natural force that creates an orderly universe (yes, ours is orderly). I get the closed universe theory, it's just incomplete. I'll fill in for boring Steve... Does it? "Beginning" is a term created by man to describe how something starts. Does everything have to start or could it just be? What came first, the chicken or the egg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I'll fill in for boring Steve... Does it? "Beginning" is a term created by man to decribe how something starts. Does everything have to start or could it just be? What came first, the chicken or the egg... I would accept that something can simply exist outside of what we understand as time (i.e., beginning, middle, end), I just haven't seen a real argument for it. What came first, the chicken or the egg? The single cell organism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 What came first, the chicken or the egg? The single cell organism. ie - I cannot answer this question, so I will take it back further. :lolguy: KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 ie - I cannot answer this question, so I will take it back further. :lolguy: KillJoy No, evolution answers the question. Where did the first chicken (as we know it) come from? The egg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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