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Learn Me: SBC vs SBF


Rhett

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Just buy may 350 I built for the blazer. About 500 miles on it swaped it for my nos motor so I could spray the blazer. Its std std std bore rods mains. New h series bearings. Rings rods reconned crank polished and trw 12;1 pistons heads are double humps with 8hrs port time on each and a new jegs cam and lifter package. Also new oil pump arp dis drive . Great motor would sell for 1000 I just don't have a need for it sitting and needing a good home. U won't buy a crate motor with this much work for this price
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I would say sbc is cheaper I went sbf just because I have a Ford and from shopping around sbc parts are cheaper. I have 5000 in a 302 bored to 306 cam age heads. Crank should be 400 and torque 425. Keep in mind though I'm including a turnkey motor alternator water pump and belts all polished.
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Just a thought, the old gen 1 sbc motors can be built to around 600hp n/a (granted that would be a 383 or 400 pretty radically built) and can handle upwards of 1000 fully built with forced induction, but to say something for reliability, why do people always seem to take old fords and drop in a sbc?
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I have the 302 Block now its a 1974. I will be stroking it to be a 347. Then putting some good heads on it, Im looking at AFRs for that. Then a good Intake and Carb set up. And seeing where we are NA for a while. I will be putting some money into a good fuel system, trans and then suspension on what ever car it goes into. If I get the bug for more power Ill prob start building a good aftemarket SBF block that can handle the Boost or Nitrous.
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I have the 302 Block now its a 1974. I will be stroking it to be a 347. Then putting some good heads on it, Im looking at AFRs for that. Then a good Intake and Carb set up. And seeing where we are NA for a while. I will be putting some money into a good fuel system, trans and then suspension on what ever car it goes into. If I get the bug for more power Ill prob start building a good aftemarket SBF block that can handle the Boost or Nitrous.

 

1974 block is the last year for the Mexican block and I know that is one of the strongest 2 bolt 302 blocks you can buy.

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A sbc isint all the same as far as hp potential. In order from strongest to weekest

350 2 bolt w billets splayed caps 1300hp a few have done this

350 2 bolt main blocks made over 900hp a few times

350 4 bolt blocks about 750 is pushing it cause week main webbing

400 any block 750hp limit and some have broke before that level

I'm. Shure some made more and lessbefore issues but this is the std for them.

My stock 010 block was 2 bolt with main caps and proably would have lasted a lifetime at 15 psi and 8.80s at 153. There is a dude on theturboforums with same block setup and a 106mm at 34psi runs 5.04 at 145 1/8th mile so it deff can b pushed harder. Push a stock ford block 302 and they crack in the lifter valley wich spreads to the main webbing. But really if u don't need 600 hp either work fine

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A sbc isint all the same as far as hp potential. In order from strongest to weekest

350 2 bolt w billets splayed caps 1300hp a few have done this

350 2 bolt main blocks made over 900hp a few times

350 4 bolt blocks about 750 is pushing it cause week main webbing

400 any block 750hp limit and some have broke before that level

I'm. Shure some made more and lessbefore issues but this is the std for them.

My stock 010 block was 2 bolt with main caps and proably would have lasted a lifetime at 15 psi and 8.80s at 153. There is a dude on theturboforums with same block setup and a 106mm at 34psi runs 5.04 at 145 1/8th mile so it deff can b pushed harder. Push a stock ford block 302 and they crack in the lifter valley wich spreads to the main webbing. But really if u don't need 600 hp either work fine

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Ok, I am slowly going more towards the Chevy Side... Finding a bunch of complete 350s for $150-$400. But I am also looking into the LS based motors. From what I am reading the LQ4 and LQ9 are compatible with LS1 parts. Am I correct?

 

What other truck motors have motors that are compatible with the LS1

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All LS motors are compatable with each other mostly. Depending on the crankshaft's reluctor ring (24 or 58 tooth) will dictate which PCM it'll take to control it. Earlier stuff is 24 and around 2005 things switched to 58. There are some other little differences, knock sensor location, cam sensor location, but all can be set up to work. Of course if you put a carb on it none of this matters. Physically the biggest difference between blocks is bore size and to run the rectangle port heads (L92, LS3, L76, ect) you need a 4" or bigger bore. You run into differences in valvetrain and intakes if you use the newer style heads. The older cathedral style heads (LS1, LS2, LS6, LQ9, LQ4, most 5.3, ect) work well and are easier to get, but there are benefits either way.

 

Depending on power goals and budget there are many ways to go. 5.3s can be had in the junkyards cheap, from pan to intake for around $500, the LS1 style computer which was used in all the trucks, Vettes, f-bodies is cheap as hell and is still a really good tuning platform, needs to be 24 tooth reluctor and a 1x cam signal. Spend a little more money and go 6.0L with an LQ4 or LQ9, these blocks are identical, the only difference is the LQ9 uses higher compression pistons, so if you're going to rebuild don't waste the extra money on the LQ9. It costs more because its rare, they only put it in a few trucks mostly Escalades. With the LQ motors you can run the newer style heads if you want, but if you get a complete motor the 6.0L heads are really good for stock heads, they share the same ports as an LS6 head with bigger chambers.

 

Point is there are tons of good options, and you are only limited by your budget.

 

I personally think that the best bang for the buck is a 5.3 complete, swap an LS1 intake and stuff on, and spray the guts out of it. This in a lightweight car would go 10s, would easily go 11s in a Camaro.

The way I went was a LQ4 with forged rods and pistons, LS1 heads, cam and bolt-ons, I've got around $4500 in the engine with machine work, gaskets, and everything. I wouldn't bat an eye to push over 700 wheel with mine. If I put "good" heads on it, it should pick up a lot more, but I'm cheap.

You could take a cheap 5.3, overbore it to LS1 specs, and pick up lots of used parts cheap, and spray the house down. Honestly iron block are whats going to be affordable, everyone wants too much for anything aluminum, and iron is only about 100 pounds heavier.

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LQ9 bottom end

L92 heads

Z06/MS3/MS4 cam

Intake, carb,

450hp combo, easy.

 

This with an MS3 or 4, had better be 500 wheel, but the magic stick cams were designed for LS1s with cathedral heads. There would be better stuff out there for this combo.

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Ive tried searching LS1tech, can any one point me to a build thread where they have carb'd ls motor and how they did the ignition with out an ecu...

 

There are 2 choices for ignition on a carb'd LS motor with no PCM, MSD makes a controler box to fire the coils. Someone else may make a similar box by now, but MSD has them for 24 tooth crank trigger and 58 tooth crank trigger. The other option is the GM parts front cover which adds a distributor drive to the front of the camshaft, uses a SBF dizzy iirc.

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You're gonna need a dizzy anyway

 

 

And this board isn't the best for giving unbiased info so here's my .02 cent

 

Do not build a 347 they have oil blow by badly, just go a tad smaller

 

If you're going to build a motor build a 351 stock motor and spray the Jesus out of it

Reason you ask?? Cuz it's gonna be cheaper than all the ignition crap you'll have to buy for your ls motor. Yes an ls motor will handle a shit ton of power but if you have a budget a 351 will in the end be cheaper (900$ for a used fast intake for ls motor)

 

If you go after market rotating assembly it's 1200 heads 1300 bolts 500 that's all arp motor bolts gaskets 200 ish then intake and carb prolly 6 to 800$ depending on deals or used, used can be dirt cheap

 

That is all for basically my motor which is a 408 ci and I run high 10's on motor no spray nothing. It's in a notch so it's somewhat light.

 

It seems to me and the more I read that ever since I was in high school people build sbc for dirt cheap. I know they are or were cheaper (haven't looked in a while) but when doing an engine swap I would not use one unless I knew what car I was gonna use due to the dizzy being in the rear of the motor and I just don't like the idea of having to pound the firewall or use a wheel barrel for a trans tunnel ( joke on jokes) just so a very important part won't arc or hit

 

So in conclusion don't build a 302 if you want power above 450ish

Don't build a 347 anyway

351 but I am biased

Ls motors can be got cheap but it's when you start modding them is when it's pricy

Sbc can be very cheap

 

If you want ls then buy a 5.3 truck motor and wiring and ECM for like 500$ and put head studs in it and spray the Jesus out of it that would be the cheapest and quickest and prolly fastest way Just don't mod it that's when it gets more expensive than a sbf

 

 

 

Sorry for absolutely no punctuation but I can't find my keyboard for my ipad

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