So are the people finally being heard ?

[KennyFKINPowerz]

I work for the state, and I think I am going to vote yes on issue 2, if it passes, and my job decides to get a union (and it's been talked about), I cannot be forced to join and pay the union.

 

I believe that you can opt out. My wife is not part of the union and does not have to pay dues. They still send everything in the mail to our house though for the union.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Let's focus on reality, that being the American society. We want everything, but don't want to sacrifice anything. We don't want to wait for anything because we feel that we deserve it. We won't choose the hard right over the easy wrong so we can make everybody happy. It's not OUR problem, it's somebody else. We expect lavish careers because we got the greatest education money can buy, but we have no job because we are above starting at the bottom. We want more than we need. We forget how great it is to live in true Freedom, but criticize every bit of it when acceptable.

 

Just my perception of things as of late.

[blue99fbody]

My wife is a State employee and I see both sides of the argument. She complains every single day about how many of her co-workers dont have a clue what they are doing and how so many of them take tons of time off and dont do their jobs when they are there. I als see how little she gets paid, how many cuts she has had to take in the last several years in an effort to balance the state budget and what not. The only saving grace are her benefits even though she gets over 400 a pay taken out for her benefits. Our insurance through her is probably 200 a month cheaper than if I were to get insurance through my employer. I have watched her not get any raises or promotions in the last several years as well. She does the work of 5 people and gets no extras in return for the additional work that she does. They have actually taken way more than they have given and now they want to take more.

 

this... i am a city laborer and they have done nothing but make cuts and take for the past few years. we are locked into no raises for the next 3 years, they have cut staff and overtime, and we have been paying 15-20% for benifits. i dont know where people get that we dont pay for anything. and every time my boss and higher up city officials cut and save they get a bonus to what they already are rolling in and they are NOT union if sb5 passes they will be able to do what they want and really fuck us and pad their pockets

[cruizin01]

I believe almost every sector of our society now caters towards irresponsibility. The lazy/cheating/lying/non-working/non-tax paying seem to do better than the rest of us. I dont see this changing anytime soon. Too many people are sucked into this lifestyle.

[TTQ B4U]

Let's focus on reality, that being the American society. We want everything, but don't want to sacrifice anything. We don't want to wait for anything because we feel that we deserve it. We won't choose the hard right over the easy wrong so we can make everybody happy. It's not OUR problem, it's somebody else. We expect lavish careers because we got the greatest education money can buy, but we have no job because we are above starting at the bottom. We want more than we need. We forget how great it is to live in true Freedom, but criticize every bit of it when acceptable.

 

Just my perception of things as of late.

 

What you describe is a sense of entitlement. It's prevalent in the millennial generations but it's quickly spreading across the various generations and getting much worse. Economic times like these are a true reset button that is needed.

[Richard Cranium]

I just caught this thread, and I'm not quite sure where to start. I've seen things from both sides of the fence. I worked in the IT field for 8 years, I've now been a teacher for 10 years. I'm close to finishing my masters degree in education administration. When I do I'll start working toward my principals license.

 

There are a number of things I've read tonight that I do agree with, and a lot I don't.

 

I'll be happy to answer any questions people want to ask, I'd rather see people get accurate information than the shit that gets spread around the internet and in the Columbus Disgrace.

 

As for a couple of the comments I have read. If you think a teacher is a middle man between a book and a student then you've never met a good teacher. Besides, who taught you to read that book? Is the teachers job to spoon feed kids? Or should I help them learn the information for themselves? Should I help them become self sufficient? Should I teach them how to learn, so later they can pick up a book and learn on their own?

 

Another post talked about uniforms. My program was a uniformed program years before my school went uniform. My students maintain a neat appearance. I give no "extra credit". Complete the work I give you when I give it to you and you won't need extra credit.

 

Anyone who thinks I only work 9 months a year has no clue what they are talking about.

Anyone who thinks I only work 6 hours a day has no clue what they are talking about.

We pay for our insurance, and we pay into our retirement. I refuse to be a GOP scapegoat to cover up poor management of our government.

 

I'm going to wrap this up because it's past my bed time. It takes more energy, patience and concentration than anyone would ever believe to be effective in the classroom. Now if I could just get the damn politicians to get out of my fucking way and just let me do my damn job I'd be happy again.

[V8 Beast]

I just caught this thread, and I'm not quite sure where to start. I've seen things from both sides of the fence. I worked in the IT field for 8 years, I've now been a teacher for 10 years. I'm close to finishing my masters degree in education administration. When I do I'll start working toward my principals license.

 

There are a number of things I've read tonight that I do agree with, and a lot I don't.

 

I'll be happy to answer any questions people want to ask, I'd rather see people get accurate information than the shit that gets spread around the internet and in the Columbus Disgrace.

 

As for a couple of the comments I have read. If you think a teacher is a middle man between a book and a student then you've never met a good teacher. Besides, who taught you to read that book? Is the teachers job to spoon feed kids? Or should I help them learn the information for themselves? Should I help them become self sufficient? Should I teach them how to learn, so later they can pick up a book and learn on their own?

 

Another post talked about uniforms. My program was a uniformed program years before my school went uniform. My students maintain a neat appearance. I give no "extra credit". Complete the work I give you when I give it to you and you won't need extra credit.

 

Anyone who thinks I only work 9 months a year has no clue what they are talking about.

Anyone who thinks I only work 6 hours a day has no clue what they are talking about.

We pay for our insurance, and we pay into our retirement. I refuse to be a GOP scapegoat to cover up poor management of our government.

 

I'm going to wrap this up because it's past my bed time. It takes more energy, patience and concentration than anyone would ever believe to be effective in the classroom. Now if I could just get the damn politicians to get out of my fucking way and just let me do my damn job I'd be happy again.

 

I wish there were more good teachers out there. Just like with any job it takes a certain type. It sounds like you are expanding your capacity circle through education, organization, ownership, and applied knowledge. I hope this is something you are sharing with your peers. A lot of teachers have lost all hope and motivation. Parents dont help, teachers dont have the tools, and people get in their way. Its enough to make the realy good teachers fade into the group. As a teacher how frustrating is it? How many of your fellow teachers have already given up? Do you teach in Hilliard?

[Xyster101]

I too am a teacher. It hurts when we are the scape goat of budget falls. I work my ass off at school, I stay late with kids to get work done and I love my job. I get paid $49k a year with 8 years in, a master's, we are on a 3 year pay freeze, I pay for part my retirement and 10% health care costs. My bachelor's has nothing to do with teaching, but my masters does. Does that mean I suck at teaching?

 

Did you go to school for parenting? You must be a bad parent. Trust me, there are plenty of my students who come from awful parents.

 

How do you pay on merit? I have a high school class with special ed kids who can't divide 15 in half and in that same class kids in Calculus. How do you test them?

 

 

You want a reduction? I am ok with that, but make it even. I want everyone from the state level down to get a reduction. Why can’t we vote on how much to pay the governor or our congressmen, but we can vote on how much money to pay towards school, police, and fire levies.

 

Are some public retirements crazy? Sure. I don't agree with retiring and then working for the gov again. That "double dipping" is not fair. I think the private sector needs better retirement and the public sector retirement needs to be changed. With my STRS I also have a 403b (like a "k") that I put money into. The STRS is not enough and I have to work 35 years before I retire. That will put me at 62 when I retire.

[Xyster101]

You want a better, safer, more modern society?

Look at lower income areas, look at the middle east, look at our nation 100 years ago. All of these examples lack education, safety and law, stable families, and had/have little order.

 

What happens to a society when their education level goes up?

What happens when more police are present?

What happens when social service is able to help abusive families?

What happens when someone’s home is not burned to the ground?

What happens when a person is motivated to better their life in college?

 

You might make good money and have a nice house. I am sure you have a great education and good business sense. Your work ethic, education, and ability to live your life in a safe and secure society comes from your parents and the programs our government offers. I am sure you can think back to a few teachers that made an impact on you in your life. If you were in a terrible accident, who do you call? If your house is on fire, who helps you? Who is in charge of your children 8 hours a day? What kind of people do you get for $7 an hour?

Taxes are going up even if SB5 goes through. What about all the other gov programs out there. Welfare: spent on drugs, cable, and cigs. Food Stamps spent on candy and crap food. Unemployment, Lowes is hiring in Marysville, they need people and can't find them, but unemployment pays to sit around. Unemployment used to require you to fill out interview sheets when you went out.

 

I am voting NO on Issue 2.

[Richard Cranium]

I wish there were more good teachers out there. Just like with any job it takes a certain type. It sounds like you are expanding your capacity circle through education, organization, ownership, and applied knowledge. I hope this is something you are sharing with your peers. A lot of teachers have lost all hope and motivation. Parents dont help, teachers dont have the tools, and people get in their way. Its enough to make the realy good teachers fade into the group. As a teacher how frustrating is it? How many of your fellow teachers have already given up? Do you teach in Hilliard?

 

There are way more good teachers out there than bad. I wish people would see that the media only highlights the worst of the worst. They talk about the one plane that crashes, but won't mention the 10,000 that landed safely. When all you hear is bad it makes it pretty easy to classify everyone as bad.

 

Are there teachers out there who have given up? Of course there are. You can find those people in all walks of life, regardless of occupation. Someone can only be beaten down by the system so much before they give up. For some people its less than others. Between constantly changing standards, high stakes testing and boiling everything down to an easily quantifiable number we are moving from a system that teaches kids how to think and learn to a system that caters to the good test takers. A buddy of mine used to use the phrase "A fish rots from the head down". Before picking up the pitchforks and torches and going after teachers try taking a look at the administration and the government leadership. We can try to change things, but they are the ones who have the power to enact change.

 

In answer to the question, no I don't teach in Hilliard. However I do live in Hilliard, pay Hilliard taxes and I do teach some Hilliard students. I teach at the career center that Hilliard and 6 other districts feed students to. I support our students by providing all the customer service work I can. I trust our students and teachers with my cars, my dogs, and my well being when I eat the food they cook, or drive the car they fixed. We've got some of the best teachers I know of, and if I had a choice to move to a higher paying school I probably would not.

[wagner]

There are way more good teachers out there than bad. I wish people would see that the media only highlights the worst of the worst. They talk about the one plane that crashes, but won't mention the 10,000 that landed safely. When all you hear is bad it makes it pretty easy to classify everyone as bad.

 

Are there teachers out there who have given up? Of course there are. You can find those people in all walks of life, regardless of occupation. Someone can only be beaten down by the system so much before they give up. For some people its less than others. Between constantly changing standards, high stakes testing and boiling everything down to an easily quantifiable number we are moving from a system that teaches kids how to think and learn to a system that caters to the good test takers. A buddy of mine used to use the phrase "A fish rots from the head down". Before picking up the pitchforks and torches and going after teachers try taking a look at the administration and the government leadership. We can try to change things, but they are the ones who have the power to enact change.

 

 

This needed to be quoted for some people to read again...

[V8 Beast]

There are way more good teachers out there than bad. I wish people would see that the media only highlights the worst of the worst. They talk about the one plane that crashes, but won't mention the 10,000 that landed safely. When all you hear is bad it makes it pretty easy to classify everyone as bad.

 

Are there teachers out there who have given up? Of course there are. You can find those people in all walks of life, regardless of occupation. Someone can only be beaten down by the system so much before they give up. For some people its less than others. Between constantly changing standards, high stakes testing and boiling everything down to an easily quantifiable number we are moving from a system that teaches kids how to think and learn to a system that caters to the good test takers. A buddy of mine used to use the phrase "A fish rots from the head down". Before picking up the pitchforks and torches and going after teachers try taking a look at the administration and the government leadership. We can try to change things, but they are the ones who have the power to enact change.

.

 

Here's my short story. My son made the mistake of being good at school. Since he's on honor roll and doesnt cause any problems he gets ignored. 20 teachers into his life and only one has done more than treat him like a number in a desk. On paper they are good teachers because he tests well. In real life hes a forgotten kid who gets limited time with his teachers per week. Are his teachers good, I bet they are... just not with my kid.

 

My point is being a good teacher can have several meanings and change form person to person. Some see it as getting through your to-do list, and having good test scores... Others see it as making a lasting impact on someones life. Its hard to argue what a good teacher really means because it can be based on facts, opinions, or a mixture of the two.

 

Dont get me wrong, I am not for teachers losing money in any way. Its already a thankless job to begin with. If it were up to me there would be a nice incentive based system set up for teachers with continued success. The monetary motivation to do better would work wonders in my opinion. If you tell a teacher they will make a $6000 bonus for meeting x goal how much gooder would our education in this country be!

 

Many of the people on the board who know me know I work with about 30 kids ranging from age 6 - 17. If anyone gets how hard the job is its me. Im not on the pay cut side. Im on my own side that says we need to inspect the value of teachers individually, not as a group. When I have to present merit increases to my employees the people that do good work get more. The desk fillers get to enjoy the same pay they made last year. How is it that a horrible treacher can make $65k per year? Give that money back to the ones doing their damn job.

[CRed05]

Chris and I graduated from the same high school. At the end of my senior year, the highest paid 'educator' in our district was our librarian...err...media specialist. Seriously, the man insisted on being called a media specialist.

-Marc

 

Haha, I remember that old dude. I wasn't aware that he was making that kind of money, unreal.

[wagner]

Here's my short story. My son made the mistake of being good at school. Since he's on honor roll and doesnt cause any problems he gets ignored. 20 teachers into his life and only one has done more than treat him like a number in a desk. On paper they are good teachers because he tests well. In real life hes a forgotten kid who gets limited time with his teachers per week. Are his teachers good, I bet they are... just not with my kid.

 

My point is being a good teacher can have several meanings and change form person to person. Some see it as getting through your to-do list, and having good test scores... Others see it as making a lasting impact on someones life. Its hard to argue what a good teacher really means because it can be based on facts, opinions, or a mixture of the two.

 

Dont get me wrong, I am not for teachers losing money in any way. Its already a thankless job to begin with. If it were up to me there would be a nice incentive based system set up for teachers with continued success. The monetary motivation to do better would work wonders in my opinion. If you tell a teacher they will make a $6000 bonus for meeting x goal how much gooder would our education in this country be!

 

Many of the people on the board who know me know I work with about 30 kids ranging from age 6 - 17. If anyone gets how hard the job is its me. Im not on the pay cut side. Im on my own side that says we need to inspect the value of teachers individually, not as a group. When I have to present merit increases to my employees the people that do good work get more. The desk fillers get to enjoy the same pay they made last year. How is it that a horrible treacher can make $65k per year? Give that money back to the ones doing their damn job.

 

The issue is you have the state and federal goverment sticking their dicks in the education process. You can thank the great George W Bush for the "no child left behind" school bus fire.

 

Teaching kids to do good on standardized tests does not make them smart.

[harmonda]

Flame on

 

Wow. I wish people would stop listening to the selfish lies in the liberal media. Issue 2 is about giving communities in Ohio the right to manage their budget just like corporations and households. Without this right...we might as well adopt Obama's socialism immediately because the tax payers effectively have no say.

 

It is also about giving Teachers, law enforcement and othere state employees the same rights and benefits that public employees enjoy. For example, teachers shouldn't have to join a union if they don't want to. (yes, they have to no matter what anyone says. If you aren't in the union...you are black-balled). They should be able to change schools, school systems, for increased salary or better working conditions without going back to the bottom of the pay scale.

 

Beyond those two points...we also need to stop supporting causes just because they benefit us personally. Hey, where is my 44 year old bald guy subsidy? Huh? Parents and anyone who is or knows a first responder have completely lost touch with right and wrong on this issue. If people were deciding what they support based on the principles of the US constitution and their interpretation of what it means to live in a free society you wouldn't have EVERY SINGLE person who benefits from this extortion supporting this unions-backed effort.

 

Furthermore...we are in the middle of the second great depression. Those of us who have steady jobs are the same people who are going to pull us out of this. We need to decrease the tax burden on the people who drive the economy with their spending.

 

The cold hard fact is that we are OVEREDUCATING our work force at this moment in our history. There is zero point in spending even more money educating someone just so they can fill out their unemployment form. We should be spending less on services like education (just while we dig out of this) but the emotional, selfish masses won't let us.

 

To make it simple to comprehend.....you want me spending money as haphazardly as I usually do. You don't want to criticize my company for giving me a large bonus because guess what....I spend it right here. My property taxes went up over $400 a month...a MONTH after the idiots in Big Walnut voted for the last levy. That is $400 per month I'm not blowing in local businesses because Mazzi thinks he can turn rural Sunbury into New Albany. Additionally...I spend nearly $3000 per year on a school district INCOME tax. That was supposed to be an emergency measure but has gone on for a decade. That is $3000 I'm not spending at IPS, Wheelmedic, Maynards, O'Reilly's, etc, etc. Between my property taxes and school district income tax I pay MORE than what I would if I had a student enrolled at OSU perpetually. Tell me my community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if I was spending it myself.

 

So you know...any business or business owner who supports the "Vote No" campaign will never get my money again. We quit going to our local bar because they hosted a levy support party and the owner has bragged several times that we are her #1 source of revenue.

 

SB5 isn't an attack on teachers....but opposing SB5 IS ABSOLUTELY an attack on spenders. It is economic suicide. Think carefully before you vote no on 2. Think about where your paycheck comes from.

 

flame off

[Gergwheel1647545492]

My property taxes went up over $400 a month...a MONTH after the idiots in Big Walnut voted for the last levy. That is $400 per month I'm not blowing in local businesses because Mazzi thinks he can turn rural Sunbury into New Albany. Additionally...I spend nearly $3000 per year on a school district INCOME tax. That was supposed to be an emergency measure but has gone on for a decade. That is $3000 I'm not spending at IPS, Wheelmedic, Maynards, O'Reilly's, etc, etc. Between my property taxes and school district income tax I pay MORE than what I would if I had a student enrolled at OSU perpetually. Tell me my community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if I was spending it myself.

 

http://columbuslocalnews.com/articles/2010/05/05/big_walnut_news/news/election/allbw%20levi_20100505_1233am_2.txt

as per this article your school district taxes went up $230 anually ($19.2 per month) per $100k that your house is vauled at. due to your statement above I am to assume you live in a 2 million dollar house in Sunbury?? if so congrats you are doing something right!

[greg1647545532]

All right! A guy who lives in a 2 million dollar house and wants people to be less educated!

 

Someone give this man the subsidy he asks for and so clearly desperately needs!

[Trouble Maker]

He is the 1%. :gabe:

[greg1647545532]

Tell me my community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if I was spending it myself.

 

Your community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if you were spending them yourself.

[V8 Beast]

The issue is you have the state and federal goverment sticking their dicks in the education process. You can thank the great George W Bush for the "no child left behind" school bus fire.

 

Teaching kids to do good on standardized tests does not make them smart.

 

Qft

[Archie]

Flame on

 

Wow. I wish people would stop listening to the selfish lies in the liberal media. Issue 2 is about giving communities in Ohio the right to manage their budget just like corporations and households. Without this right...we might as well adopt Obama's socialism immediately because the tax payers effectively have no say.

 

It is also about giving Teachers, law enforcement and othere state employees the same rights and benefits that public employees enjoy. For example, teachers shouldn't have to join a union if they don't want to. (yes, they have to no matter what anyone says. If you aren't in the union...you are black-balled). They should be able to change schools, school systems, for increased salary or better working conditions without going back to the bottom of the pay scale.

 

Beyond those two points...we also need to stop supporting causes just because they benefit us personally. Hey, where is my 44 year old bald guy subsidy? Huh? Parents and anyone who is or knows a first responder have completely lost touch with right and wrong on this issue. If people were deciding what they support based on the principles of the US constitution and their interpretation of what it means to live in a free society you wouldn't have EVERY SINGLE person who benefits from this extortion supporting this unions-backed effort.

 

Furthermore...we are in the middle of the second great depression. Those of us who have steady jobs are the same people who are going to pull us out of this. We need to decrease the tax burden on the people who drive the economy with their spending.

 

The cold hard fact is that we are OVEREDUCATING our work force at this moment in our history. There is zero point in spending even more money educating someone just so they can fill out their unemployment form. We should be spending less on services like education (just while we dig out of this) but the emotional, selfish masses won't let us.

 

To make it simple to comprehend.....you want me spending money as haphazardly as I usually do. You don't want to criticize my company for giving me a large bonus because guess what....I spend it right here. My property taxes went up over $400 a month...a MONTH after the idiots in Big Walnut voted for the last levy. That is $400 per month I'm not blowing in local businesses because Mazzi thinks he can turn rural Sunbury into New Albany. Additionally...I spend nearly $3000 per year on a school district INCOME tax. That was supposed to be an emergency measure but has gone on for a decade. That is $3000 I'm not spending at IPS, Wheelmedic, Maynards, O'Reilly's, etc, etc. Between my property taxes and school district income tax I pay MORE than what I would if I had a student enrolled at OSU perpetually. Tell me my community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if I was spending it myself.

 

So you know...any business or business owner who supports the "Vote No" campaign will never get my money again. We quit going to our local bar because they hosted a levy support party and the owner has bragged several times that we are her #1 source of revenue.

 

SB5 isn't an attack on teachers....but opposing SB5 IS ABSOLUTELY an attack on spenders. It is economic suicide. Think carefully before you vote no on 2. Think about where your paycheck comes from.

 

flame off

 

This is the most intelligent post in the thread.

[V8 Beast]

Flame on

 

Wow. I wish people would stop listening to the selfish lies in the liberal media. Issue 2 is about giving communities in Ohio the right to manage their budget just like corporations and households. Without this right...we might as well adopt Obama's socialism immediately because the tax payers effectively have no say.

 

It is also about giving Teachers, law enforcement and othere state employees the same rights and benefits that public employees enjoy. For example, teachers shouldn't have to join a union if they don't want to. (yes, they have to no matter what anyone says. If you aren't in the union...you are black-balled). They should be able to change schools, school systems, for increased salary or better working conditions without going back to the bottom of the pay scale.

 

Beyond those two points...we also need to stop supporting causes just because they benefit us personally. Hey, where is my 44 year old bald guy subsidy? Huh? Parents and anyone who is or knows a first responder have completely lost touch with right and wrong on this issue. If people were deciding what they support based on the principles of the US constitution and their interpretation of what it means to live in a free society you wouldn't have EVERY SINGLE person who benefits from this extortion supporting this unions-backed effort.

 

Furthermore...we are in the middle of the second great depression. Those of us who have steady jobs are the same people who are going to pull us out of this. We need to decrease the tax burden on the people who drive the economy with their spending.

 

The cold hard fact is that we are OVEREDUCATING our work force at this moment in our history. There is zero point in spending even more money educating someone just so they can fill out their unemployment form. We should be spending less on services like education (just while we dig out of this) but the emotional, selfish masses won't let us.

 

To make it simple to comprehend.....you want me spending money as haphazardly as I usually do. You don't want to criticize my company for giving me a large bonus because guess what....I spend it right here. My property taxes went up over $400 a month...a MONTH after the idiots in Big Walnut voted for the last levy. That is $400 per month I'm not blowing in local businesses because Mazzi thinks he can turn rural Sunbury into New Albany. Additionally...I spend nearly $3000 per year on a school district INCOME tax. That was supposed to be an emergency measure but has gone on for a decade. That is $3000 I'm not spending at IPS, Wheelmedic, Maynards, O'Reilly's, etc, etc. Between my property taxes and school district income tax I pay MORE than what I would if I had a student enrolled at OSU perpetually. Tell me my community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if I was spending it myself.

 

So you know...any business or business owner who supports the "Vote No" campaign will never get my money again. We quit going to our local bar because they hosted a levy support party and the owner has bragged several times that we are her #1 source of revenue.

 

SB5 isn't an attack on teachers....but opposing SB5 IS ABSOLUTELY an attack on spenders. It is economic suicide. Think carefully before you vote no on 2. Think about where your paycheck comes from.

 

flame off

 

I agree with 90% of this very intelligent and well put together post. I just dont think my son or daughters education should be limited because of lazy adults.

[Richard Cranium]

Flame on

 

Wow. I wish people would stop listening to the selfish lies in the liberal media. Issue 2 is about giving communities in Ohio the right to manage their budget just like corporations and households. Without this right...we might as well adopt Obama's socialism immediately because the tax payers effectively have no say.

 

It is also about giving Teachers, law enforcement and othere state employees the same rights and benefits that public employees enjoy. For example, teachers shouldn't have to join a union if they don't want to. (yes, they have to no matter what anyone says. If you aren't in the union...you are black-balled). They should be able to change schools, school systems, for increased salary or better working conditions without going back to the bottom of the pay scale.

 

Beyond those two points...we also need to stop supporting causes just because they benefit us personally. Hey, where is my 44 year old bald guy subsidy? Huh? Parents and anyone who is or knows a first responder have completely lost touch with right and wrong on this issue. If people were deciding what they support based on the principles of the US constitution and their interpretation of what it means to live in a free society you wouldn't have EVERY SINGLE person who benefits from this extortion supporting this unions-backed effort.

 

Furthermore...we are in the middle of the second great depression. Those of us who have steady jobs are the same people who are going to pull us out of this. We need to decrease the tax burden on the people who drive the economy with their spending.

 

The cold hard fact is that we are OVEREDUCATING our work force at this moment in our history. There is zero point in spending even more money educating someone just so they can fill out their unemployment form. We should be spending less on services like education (just while we dig out of this) but the emotional, selfish masses won't let us.

 

To make it simple to comprehend.....you want me spending money as haphazardly as I usually do. You don't want to criticize my company for giving me a large bonus because guess what....I spend it right here. My property taxes went up over $400 a month...a MONTH after the idiots in Big Walnut voted for the last levy. That is $400 per month I'm not blowing in local businesses because Mazzi thinks he can turn rural Sunbury into New Albany. Additionally...I spend nearly $3000 per year on a school district INCOME tax. That was supposed to be an emergency measure but has gone on for a decade. That is $3000 I'm not spending at IPS, Wheelmedic, Maynards, O'Reilly's, etc, etc. Between my property taxes and school district income tax I pay MORE than what I would if I had a student enrolled at OSU perpetually. Tell me my community is getting more benefit from those dollars than if I was spending it myself.

 

So you know...any business or business owner who supports the "Vote No" campaign will never get my money again. We quit going to our local bar because they hosted a levy support party and the owner has bragged several times that we are her #1 source of revenue.

 

SB5 isn't an attack on teachers....but opposing SB5 IS ABSOLUTELY an attack on spenders. It is economic suicide. Think carefully before you vote no on 2. Think about where your paycheck comes from.

 

flame off

 

And I wish people would quit blindly listening to the conservative media, it's just as far off base. At some schools union membership is mandatory, but I can tell you for a fact that not all schools are because I teach at one. I am not compelled to be a member in any way. I choose to be a member because I want the legal counsel the union provides. My school chooses to shoot first and ask questions later if any allegations are made against a teacher. And we can change schools without going to the bottom of the pay scale, normally there is a drop since most schools won't recognize more that 10 years experience though.

 

As for over educating people, there is some sense to that statement. But who do you propose we start deliberately under educating? Should we start with the inner city? Do those kids deserve less of an education because their families are poorer? I think any kid who wants and education and is willing to work for it should have one. Kids can't choose who their parents will be. Do you really want to hamstring them from birth just because their parents don't have money?

 

Every parent I've ever met wants more for their kids than they had themselves. The traditional route to that is education. Education gives a kid options. With the right education he can choose to be a professional, or he can choose to be a day laborer. Without the education he has no options. I say give every kid the option and the ones who want to better themselves can.

 

Maybe you want politicians in control of police, fire and education. I for one don't because I don't trust the bastards. When they start writing laws that apply to everyone but themselves I have a problem with that. Hell, Kasich defended the pay raises for his staff by saying that if you want good qualified people in the job you have to be willing to pay them. While I didn't go into teaching for the money, if you want mediocre firefighters, police and teachers be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. If I have to go take a part time job to make ends meet it will have a substantial negative effect in my classroom.

[Tractor]

I wish I got legal counsel when I get called out about something.

 

I also wish I got to move to a new job and get to start out like I have up to ten years in already like your saying you could do. Must be nice to not have to start at the bottom.

[Tractor]

My thoughts on over education. "Have's" should get it if they want it because they can. "Have Nots" will just have to deal without it or earn it.

 

Its sort of the way things work and why the world turns. We can't realistically educate all 7 billion people of the earth and then expect anyone to do jobs that are "beneath" them.

You can't simply give a degree to a person and then tell them to pick lettuce and pay them 75K/yr.

 

I have a lot of friends in lots of European countries and this is exactly what's happened there. Everyone can pretty much get a degree if they want one, they get it and then can't find work because everyone is qualified on paper, so experience becomes important, and more graduate each year adding to the mess.