help needed 99saab

[Rocky31186]

Didn't read all the posts. But from experience these saabs are known to go through PRNDL switches, starter relays, and c.o.p. "cassettes".

 

Maybe a couple of us can come over Sunday and help you kick the tire?

[Patterson]

With it running did you look for Vacuum leaks? I might lean towards one or more plug wires being faulty.

[Rocky31186]

With it running did you look for Vacuum leaks? I might lean towards one or more plug wires being faulty.

 

A stated this is a coil over plug assembly. So the whole unit will need to be replaced. (if this is the set up I believe it has)

[wnaplay1647545503]

I checked for vacuum leaks and didnt necessarily see any but then again the lines are so dryrotted..... Rocky I would love the help but sunday we have a family event here at the house and no time.

[Crossle]

Sounds like quite the peach. Verify you are getting a power reference at the starter from the ignition switch. If so, THEN check ground/battery positive at starter and suspect starter if everything else is ok.

 

If not, need to find out why you aren't getting a signal from the ign. switch. Stuck relay, open wire, open switch something. (This is where you would REALLY want a wiring diagram of the starting circuit.)

 

Probably worth checking voltage drop from the battery as well to the starter just to be safe.

[wnaplay1647545503]

So far I have tested to see if the battery is good, and made an attempt at bypassing the neutral safety switch. I used a set of jumper cables to try and reground but still nothing. I will check for power at the starter, I should get a dc voltage reading of 12v with the key turned on?

[wnaplay1647545503]

So I have 12v to the starter with the key in any position. The ignition wire, what kind of power should I be getting with the key in the on position vs off? And do I need the key cranking to get a reading at the ignition wire or just in the on position?

[wnaplay1647545503]

I tested the ignition wire at the starter. With the key in the on position I get a .015 reading and .000 with it off. Should I pop the starter back off?

[Crossle]

PM sent. Need key in "start" position to see power on reference wire. Remember, the starter will only work in the "start" position. If you had power in the "on" position it would be cranking and not good lol.

[wnaplay1647545503]

So I had someone turn the key all the way to the start position and hold it while I looked for a reading and didnt get one at the reference wire or whatever the wire is called that isnt the 12v supply.

[Crossle]

Make sure the car is in park, turn the key to "on". (auto?) Take a jumper wire, hook one end up to 12V and touch the other end to the tab on the starter where the reference wire hooks up and see if the starter tries to work. (CAUTION, you will essentially be bypassing the ignition switch to start the engine. Make sure your hands are clear of accessories, etc.) If it does, you know the starter is operational, but for some reason the ignition switch is not telling it to do so.

 

If you feel uncomfortable doing this, you basically need to find out why you aren't getting a reference signal from the ignition switch to the starter. A wiring diagram will be your best friend at this stage.

 

Is this an auto or manual car?

[wnaplay1647545503]

I tried this already with a smaller wire(maybe not big enough?) and it didnt try to force the starter to do anything. I also thought of taking a screwdriver and using it to jump from the starter wire to the reference wire and see if that forces it to engage.

[wnaplay1647545503]

Tried the screwdriver and nothing, a very veryfaint hollow sound but that could just be a voltage bump or something I guess, certainly wasnt a starter noise.

[Crossle]

I just used a actual coiled jumper wire which isn't a large diameter wire at all. Does the battery have 12V right now, or close to it?

[Crossle]

Also when you try to do it, rest your hand on the starter (if possible) and make sure that noise isn't coming from the starter. Make sure you don't feel a click or something.

[Crossle]

I hate to ask the painful question, but have you tried to put a wrench on the crank bolt and make sure the engine actually turns freely? Just as a quick verification I suppose. With how this thing was acting and being driven into the ground aparently I suppose it's possible.

 

You describe a faint "hollow" sound which would lead me to believe that it may be trying to operate, but doesn't have 12V on the big wire from the battery. Since I am sure you guys were cranking the thing over since it would hardly start.

 

Still odd that you have nothing on the reference wire.

[wnaplay1647545503]

No click. The battery has 12v and still reads 11+v when trying to crank or at least when the key is turned. Can I pull the starter hook 12v to it and jump across to the reference wire and force it to engage on my bench? If the starter is bad, what would make 2 go bad in a week? Junk starters?

[wnaplay1647545503]

I was thinking the same thing but not sure where to put a wrench at or if I would be doing damage trying.

[wnaplay1647545503]

I dont have a big enough socket to get onto the bolt. It could be locked up but it was running until shut off and then wouldnt restart 15 mins later.

[Crossle]

Yes, you can bench test it, I was going to suggest that, but that's up to you on the work load.

 

Yes, cheap re-built starters can go bad that fast. Was it replaced recently. Sry, I am not up to speed with all the info on what has been done.

 

Find socket that fits, get ratchet, put on crank pulley bolt and turn. I would start clockwise just incase it's locked up. I don't think it's a problem, but it's worth the check before going to the effort to pull the starter.

 

I suppose it's possible the starter gear is stuck "out" on the flexplate/flywheel.

[Crossle]

Just saw that you don't have a big enough socket. That's ok, continue with starter checking then.

[Crossle]

AHHH, just re-read original post lol. Where did he get the starter, and was it a rebuilt, one or a new one.

 

I don't know what everyone else was thinking, but on the whirring sound here is the scoop.

 

If it makes a high pitched whirring sound 1 of 3 things is happening. Either the starter gear is moving out towards the flexplate and not hitting it thus needing shims. Which BTW, I haven't had to shim a starter in about 4 years, you don't use them on anything newer now a days. That was a like pre 90's thing except for like 302's and LT1's that continued in their design into the 90's.

 

OR

 

The starter gear is spinning, but not plunging out towards the flexplate. Thus, shitty starter, likely a poor re-build.

 

OR

 

The flywheel/flexplate is loose

 

If a tooth was missing it would make a clanging/grinding sound then typically catch, then have a dead spot of clanging.

 

In 1 RARE instance on a manual car, we saw that the outer ring of teeth on the flywheel broke off (LOL) causing a whirring noise due to the starter gear not being able to reach the teeth.

[wnaplay1647545503]

Advance, and then was replaced again under warranty from advance about 20 miles apart. I can pull the starter quickly I will try that.

[wnaplay1647545503]

Its finally running. 1. issue down. Replaced the starter with a 3rd one and it fired right up. Now I back to dealing with why its running so poorly. Whats the first thing to check on that?

[Patterson]

Look for Vacuum leaks. Carbon Cleaner, or Brake Cleaner