airwg2189 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Social/moral/ethical issue, yes. Legal issue, no. You can legally follow someone all day long if you so choose to, as long as you aren't trespassing into private property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I think people are getting confused. In order to give the police the best idea of where the perp goes, one must observe that. If that means get out of your truck to do so, your in your legal right. Pursuing and Observing are 2 different things, It's his job to observe and report. That's what he was doing, if the kids still in the neighborhood, he can observe him from a god damn drone if he wants. The issue isn't Zimmerman observing and then losing sight and (from his testimony) retreating back to his truck. The issue is trayvon PHYSICALLY assualting Zimmerman. That's when the self defense situation begins. At physical contact. Period. (if that's indeed what happend) we will never know though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Bottom line, no one in their right mind would be able to charge him with anything considering MASSIVE and reasonable doubt on the prosecutions side. Angela Corey should lose her job over this. She filed charges she had no evidence filing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 The big issue is the way the police initially handled it. If they would have at least looked a little further into it the media would have found another ratings giant. There is no where near enough anything to convict him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I agree Brian. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 pursuing someone isn't standing your ground. if zimmerman was in danger it was because he put himself there. he should have shot himself with that logic. pursuing the following someone is not against the law. Zimmerman putting himself in that situation is also not against the law. Who started the physical confrontation is unknown. Unless it can be proven that Z made the first move in an aggressive manner, there's reasonable doubt. He strikes me as a very passive aggressive type of person, thus I don't believe he would've instigated a physical confrontation. Knowing what we do of tray, I could see him turning around and confronting Zimmerman, and perhaps even becoming violent. All just my opinion and speculation of course. Z should walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I agree Brian. :gabe: :fuuuu: :fuuuu: :fuuuu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 pursuing the following someone is not against the law. Zimmerman putting himself in that situation is also not against the law. Who started the physical confrontation is unknown. Unless it can be proven that Z made the first move in an aggressive manner, there's reasonable doubt. He strikes me as a very passive aggressive type of person, thus I don't believe he would've instigated a physical confrontation. Knowing what we do of tray, I could see him turning around and confronting Zimmerman, and perhaps even becoming violent. All just my opinion and speculation of course. Z should walk. Pro Zimmerman = Martin initiated Pro Martin = Zimmerman initiated Unless you can read Zimmermans brain people are trying to build the best "what if" to win. Just take his money in the civil suit to shut people up and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Can't Zimmerman turn around and sue the pants off the parents of the kid? They are running around smearing his name calling him a murderer and such. If zim is acquitted, he will sue the pants off every major media outlet, Angela Corey, the state of Florida and trayvons parents for ruining his life. If the martins were smart, theyd leave it alone. But they won't and they will get burned again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russian rocket Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Pro Zimmerman = Martin initiated Pro Martin = Zimmerman initiated Unless you can read Zimmermans brain people are trying to build the best "what if" to win. Just take his money in the civil suit to shut people up and call it a day. If Zimmerman wins under stand your ground law. He is immune to civil suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 If Zimmerman wins under stand your ground law. He is immune to civil suits. On the flip side if he wins because of the stand your ground law the law will be attacked until its gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Pro Zimmerman = Martin initiated Pro Martin = Zimmerman initiated Unless you can read Zimmermans brain people are trying to build the best "what if" to win. Just take his money in the civil suit to shut people up and call it a day. We don't have to read his mind. He's innocent until the prosecution can prove he started it. If they can't prove it, then it it as good as never having happened. Until like OJ he releases a book on what really happened. :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 We don't have to read his mind. He's innocent until the prosecution can prove he started it. If they can't prove it, then it it as good as never having happened. Until like OJ he releases a book on what really happened. :no: They are still both playing what if with the evidence they have. Even with being innocent until proven guilty they still has to have their own what ifs to combat the other sides what ifs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey2721 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 pursuing the following someone is not against the law. Zimmerman putting himself in that situation is also not against the law. Who started the physical confrontation is unknown. Unless it can be proven that Z made the first move in an aggressive manner, there's reasonable doubt. He strikes me as a very passive aggressive type of person, thus I don't believe he would've instigated a physical confrontation. Knowing what we do of tray, I could see him turning around and confronting Zimmerman, and perhaps even becoming violent. All just my opinion and speculation of course. Z should walk. wasn't saying it was against the law. i was saying he should have stayed in his vehicle. he had no reason to be following him when even the 911 operator told him not to. he will walk if they can not prove he started the confrontation. i cant really see this kid just jumping a grown man much bigger then him. (yes size doesn't matter cause the kid obviously got the better of him. but still) is there a statement of zimmermans that says exactly what happened from his point of view? if its been posted sorry i missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russian rocket Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 wasn't saying it was against the law. i was saying he should have stayed in his vehicle. he had no reason to be following him when even the 911 operator told him not to. he will walk if they can not prove he started the confrontation. i cant really see this kid just jumping a grown man much bigger then him. (yes size doesn't matter cause the kid obviously got the better of him. but still) is there a statement of zimmermans that says exactly what happened from his point of view? if its been posted sorry i missed it. im curious, did you ever listen to the 911 call yourself? zimmerman was not much bigger than martin, martin weighed in 160-170 and was 6'0 to 6'2", zimmerman is 5'8" to 5'9" and weighed between 170 and 200 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fast5gp Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 im curious, did you ever listen to the 911 call yourself? zimmerman was not much bigger than martin, martin weighed in 160-170 and was 6'0 to 6'2", zimmerman is 5'8" to 5'9" and weighed between 170 and 200 lbs. I think he has been watching NBC way too much. :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 wasn't saying it was against the law. i was saying he should have stayed in his vehicle. he had no reason to be following him when even the 911 operator told him not to. He had a valid reason. He felt Tray was suspicious and he made a call to the police to report him. The dispatcher never told him not to follow him, he said that's not necessary. There's a difference. I cant really see this kid just jumping a grown man much bigger then him.Really? I disagree. First of all Z isn't that much bigger. Second, Tray is a young fit/trim kid vs Z who is less than athletic looking older guy...I'd take that odds and believe Tray did too. Along your lines though, I say the same thing when I see the news and they report kids taking shots at cops. They don't care, they don't think through the consequences and they typically believe they are invincible. I don't think tray just exchanged words and I personally don't see Z starting a fist fight. I could see him pulling a gun right away, but evidence doesn't support that happening. My guess is Z started a verbal questioning and acted tough, tray turned and got in his face and ended up taking him to the ground, where Z then cryed for help, then out of desperation grabbed his gun and Tray got what he didn't expect and found out he wasn't invincible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 How hard is it for people to understand you can observe all you want in this situation in order to give the police the most accurate description as to where the perp is!! Zimmerman can do that. As long as he doesn't touch him. Thats the biggest grey area in this story. A 60 second break in time where the confrontation started is where you find the guilty person, not when zimmerman got out of his truck, that doesn't even matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 If you ask me Zimmerman had the kid on alert already by following him and got too damn close trying not to lose him. If some random guy is following you around what would you do? Zimmerman somehow triggered Trayvon into a fight or flight mode... And something as simple as following him could have been the reason behind it. I can tell you being followed is one of the worst feelings in the world and it makes you fear for your life. I have ran and confronted people. If one would have had a gun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 If you ask me Zimmerman had the kid on alert already by following him and got too damn close trying not to lose him. If some random guy is following you around what would you do? not attack them (if that did in fact happen). He ask them why they are following you....not swing on them mma style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I highly doubt the fighting was the first step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I highly doubt the fighting was the first step. I'm sure there was an exchange of words, but thats not illegal. All that matters is who touch who first, thats the aggressor in this case and we may never know who it was. Only Zimmerman knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I'm sure there was an exchange of words, but thats not illegal. All that matters is who touch who first, thats the aggressor in this case and we may never know who it was. Only Zimmerman knows that. When they finally make a time machine Im adding this to my list of stuff to go back and see.. right after Jessica Alba in the shower at 23 years old.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 the whole case is completely fucked. I mean the witnesses are all different it seems. Its a series of bad investigating and poor witness accounts. Thats mainly why i think it will get tossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey2721 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 this case though is drawing the line between whats legal and what if you are honest with yourself is right. If you ask me Zimmerman had the kid on alert already by following him and got too damn close trying not to lose him. If some random guy is following you around what would you do? Zimmerman somehow triggered Trayvon into a fight or flight mode... And something as simple as following him could have been the reason behind it. I can tell you being followed is one of the worst feelings in the world and it makes you fear for your life. I have ran and confronted people. If one would have had a gun... yes exactly. do you (not directing this towards mr beast, just agree with your quote.) do you believe he would have been so bold without his carry? even if he was not doing anything illegal.. he in my eyes at least was in the wrong. wrong not illegal. look, a man lost his life way to young. this man was barely a man he was still and kid and forced into a very adult situation. zimmerman was over zealous and KNEW he had a gun when he got out of his vehicle. he KNEW he had a gun on him and acted outside the lines of normal (in my opinion) if he had NOT had a gun. this is something you should never do if you are a ccw holder. the firearm should not give you bigger balls in any situation. if anything you should do your best to avoid any situation where you think you would need to fall back on your firearm. to me if you are a permit holder you should remember that in your actions. say what you will but i hold a permit holder to a bit higher standards. for the record i am 100 percent FOR ccw. that fact is why i have such issue just letting zimmerman off on this. will prolly get flamed for this but he should NOT have gotten out of his damn vehicle. he is NOT a cop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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