DTM Brian Posted May 18, 2012 Report Share Posted May 18, 2012 I might be of assistance... I can confirm the ecm's commanded timing using this.... http://www.racesystems.com/sneeciv/screenshot.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew2o2 Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 So if all else fails I would serious have another look at your camshaft timing. Maybe your timing set is shady or something but unless I read it wrong it said there was no mark on the cam gear? Then how did you line it up, I would take the timing cover back off and get a quality timing set aswell as a degree wheel if your cam is not stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 So if all else fails I would serious have another look at your camshaft timing. Maybe your timing set is shady or something but unless I read it wrong it said there was no mark on the cam gear? Then how did you line it up, I would take the timing cover back off and get a quality timing set aswell as a degree wheel if your cam is not stock. You read wrong, the cam gear is what drives the oil pump. The timing gear is what you line up. The cam timing gear has a dimple and the crank gear has 0 then 2a 4a 6a 8a then 2r 4r 6r 8r. The cam is the same cam that came out of car E-cam except it's a brand new. Ford E - cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew2o2 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 When I said cam gear I meant the larger gear from your timing set that bolts to the camshaft. Glad to hear the assembly went together properly, sorry for the confusion good luck figuring it it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Ok, here is what happen over weekend. Picked up piston stop, to check True TDC, balancer was off some made new comp stroke mark then reversed to exhaust stroke made mark used electrical tape to measure the distance it was 2 inches made new TDC mark. Pulled piston stop, re-installed distru. Checked all wires again, fired it up and pop in the intake. Although, it was not as loud so, I think that the balancer was part of the problem. Since it was still having intake pop, went ahead and pulled timing cover and just like I thought timing set was correct timing dimple tooth pointing to 0 . So I start looking for vacuum leaks which would allow un-metered air in the intake and heads. Sure enough, there was one fitting that need a vacuum cap in the middle of the underside of the intake not visible in the front. All other intake vacuum line were hooked up. So, I pulled intake to check spacers, since dad bought carb valve covers since this efi we had 1 inch spacer and 1/2 inch spacer with 3 gaskets. Think that this is not sealing properly. So we are going back to stock valve covers and the original 1/2 inch spacer. Going to start putting everything back together with stock valve covers and 1/2 inch spacer. To see if we cannot get rid of the pop in the intake. It was explained to me by local guy who bought fixed and resold 14 Foxes to get his Anderson built hatch pushing 650 to 750 hp, that a vacuum leak of considerable size can allow the unmetered air from a vacuum leak can cause the intake pop. I hope he is right. Has anyone else seen a vacuum leak cause intake pop. Like I said the true TDC made the pop slightly less audible, still audible by all means though. I'm hoping that the vacuum leak fixes the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 When I said cam gear I meant the larger gear from your timing set that bolts to the camshaft. Glad to hear the assembly went together properly, sorry for the confusion good luck figuring it it out. I can only hope, we have a rather good local knowledge base around here and everyone is quite stumped. However the guy that mentioned the vacuum leak pointed us to triple check each possible leak area low and behold I think that I found two. However, many of are still wondering how a vacuum leak or unmetered air can keep an intake valve open during the firing to hear the pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew2o2 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Glad to hear you making progress, two thing I would consider one if the balancer doesn't even have the timing marks in the right place you may want to consider a new since who knows what else the manufacture has out of spec. Second unmetered air is gonna cause a lean conditon so I would get your self a can of carb cleaner, or starter fluid and spray around the gaskets surfaces you suspect are leaking and when you hear an increase in rpms you have found the location of your leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I looked around after a google search seems quite a few people have had a vacuum leak cause intake pop.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Glad to hear you making progress, two thing I would consider one if the balancer doesn't even have the timing marks in the right place you may want to consider a new since who knows what else the manufacture has out of spec. Second unmetered air is gonna cause a lean conditon so I would get your self a can of carb cleaner, or starter fluid and spray around the gaskets surfaces you suspect are leaking and when you hear an increase in rpms you have found the location of your leak. Well the gaskets may or may not have been problem when I pug that gaping hole in middle center of Cobra intake facing rearward with a vacuum condom. I think all may be well. Thanks for idea on spraying areas to locate leak.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351mach11647545510 Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Not to be a dick, but are you sure you are on the #1 cylinder? I only ask because I knew a guy who was only familiar with SBC and when he went to change wires for a friend on a SBF he based it off the way chevy cylinders are numbered, not realizing fords were totally different. Sounds like the same problem he ended up having trying to get it to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Not to be a dick, but are you sure you are on the #1 cylinder? I only ask because I knew a guy who was only familiar with SBC and when he went to change wires for a friend on a SBF he based it off the way chevy cylinders are numbered, not realizing fords were totally different. Sounds like the same problem he ended up having trying to get it to run. It's okay, yeah Dad raced small block Chevy in dirt car IMCA, firing order clockwise 305 and 350 firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 SBF firing order counter clockwise HO 302 firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 4 8 3 7 2 5 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Totally stumped, last night was closest thing to idle it ran for about 1 minute at 500-600 rpm. Then it went back to popping and unable to hold idle. Then in the next few attempts it would kick over surge then die. I think I'm still looking for a vacuum leak, I plugged the one that was found the other night. Plan on spraying to pinpoint the surge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Totally stumped, last night was closest thing to idle it ran for about 1 minute at 500-600 rpm. Then it went back to popping and unable to hold idle. Then in the next few attempts it would kick over surge then die. I think I'm still looking for a vacuum leak, I plugged the one that was found the other night. Plan on spraying to pinpoint the surge.. Time to think outside the box........ Sounds like extremely lean condition. If its not a vacuum leak then it is in the tune. (Mass air transfer function vs Mass air calibration vs injector flow) Just because a maf is matched to a set of injectors does not mean it is going to run right. RL will agree. If you do not find a vacuum leak I believe you have 1 of 2 options. 1. - Try another maf calibrated to your injectors 2. - Get the car tuned for the injectors and maf you are currently running. If you are wanting a 3rd option I think it would be going with a number of hours of troubleshooting with no results until you throw in the towel and go with either option 1 or option 2. Datalogging with a SNEEC "should" pinpoint the problem within a couple of minutes. I do know a thing or 2 about EECIV ecm's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Vacuum leak found.. GOt her up to an idle hit it with starting fluid in the rear rpm's picked up.....Sprayed it in the front rpm's picked up..... TIme to pull the lower and reseat it, that mean new gaskets and all that fun shit... Dad has nicknamed the car the green demon....I know that demon like to eat money $$$$$$$...Once we get the vacuum leaked sealed out thing should run like a champ.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew2o2 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glad I could help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glad you found the problem. I keep cans of carb cleaner on the shelf for this reason for customers cars on the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKilbourne Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glad you found the problem. I keep cans of carb cleaner on the shelf for this reason for customers cars on the dyno. BS, it's always a tune issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 BS, it's always a tune issue Not this time, I found a post on Mustang corral guy had same problem, and it was something I questioned right away. I noticed a slight gap between the heads and the lower intake, but everyone kept saying no that's not it. Well, me and a buddy took the lower off today and there were little gaps above every runner on the heads which was not sealed by the gasket. Purchased the larger gasket, that Ford recommends some people call it a 1262, all I know is the ford part number ends in -A50. Replaced those gaskets put everything back together and bingo fired right up and idle with not a single problem... This is the post that solved the issue with our build... http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1237349-cobra-intake-does-not-fit-gt-40x-heads.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 It's okay, yeah Dad raced small block Chevy in dirt car IMCA, firing order clockwise 305 and 350 firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 SBF firing order counter clockwise HO 302 firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 4 8 3 7 2 5 1 6 you have the ford cylinders on the driver side marked wrong its 1234 on the passenger side from front to rear and 5678 on the driver side front to rear that will cause it to pop also good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew2o2 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 It's probably a good idea to replace the stuff but if this is a ccheap prject I would first start by making sure the bolts for the lower intake are torqued properly by making another pass or two on them before I took it apart since the gasket is brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 you have the ford cylinders on the driver side marked wrong its 1234 on the passenger side from front to rear and 5678 on the driver side front to rear that will cause it to pop also good luck LoL, just a typo thanks for catching that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMustangStampede Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 It's probably a good idea to replace the stuff but if this is a ccheap prject I would first start by making sure the bolts for the lower intake are torqued properly by making another pass or two on them before I took it apart since the gasket is brand new. Well, I don't think it's to cheap 2300, at the machine shop alone. By Watson & Ruppel. Severance in Somerset rebuilt AOD 22-2500 stall, with shift kit, chromoly input shaft, kevlar bands. That was $800-850. New water pump new gaskets all over, ARP bolts Brand new headers, full exhaust, new inner fender CAI new wheels and rubber 17 black 95 cobra from AM, new set of drag radials on 16 inch pony wheels. New line lock sitting on shelf ready to be put in. We went back over TQ specs on headers and lower intake after 2 heat cycles and 10 miles, will check them again around 500 miles. After switching to the recommended gasket car is running like a top.. Here's how this went wrong. I ordered a fel-pro 5.0 gasket kit. Then we order the heads and never looked backed. We grabbed the fel-pro gasket kit off the shelf when we started putting it back together and the stock lower manifold to head gaskets was wrong on both sides. No one caught this when we was putting it back together, simple oversight led to hours and hours of delays. That won't happen again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.