that dude Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 are the forks bent also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusDave01 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 nah i dont think so i mean middletown jsut did both fors seals im sure they would have told me if they where bent or noticed,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Yes Seals can be overlooked, but as bad as it was when he made it to my house there is no way it wasn't bad when the dealer took ownership of it is all I am saying.And Yes on Decel at slower speeds the bike did pull/try to lean to the right. It took pressure on the left clip on to keep it straight. No maybe on a perfectly flat road with flat tires it wouldn't pull.Would be a good experiment. Take two springs 100lb and 600lb spring set them a 10 inches apart. take a metal rod and have a press with a swiviel head push a metal par down direcly in the center of the springs. First slow push then a fast initial push.I bet at slow the bar may not tilt due to the fact that the softer spring will sill keep tension on the bar and just compress at the rate of the stiffer spring.But a hard initial hit I think the weaker spring will give more initial and up with the bar leaning to one side.Need to call mythbusters to do that one.Chris-What you are missing is that the forks WORK TOGETHER AS ONE UNIT... Hence why on some older bikes they had a spring on one side and oil in the other or even air... They both bolt to the triple at a central point and THAT'S where they work as one unit.Unless the fork is bent, it isn't relating to the seals or lack of oil or hell, if there isn't a spring in one tube...If the right fork was out of oil and the left form was fine and you hit a pothole on the bottom of the right fork tube base, it would have to bend the axle in order to make the bike go right... VERY unlikely scenario, but the axle would have to bend before it went one way or the other due to a fork...Chain could easily be mis aligned in the back and pull it one way or the other... A brake could bind slightly and pull it to one side or the other. Not a fork tube...And as far as it leaking when you got it home. If it were leaking a lot (Oil always looks worse than it is), it seriously could have been from just starting. Know how many fork seals I have seen leaking right away at the MX tracks? MX bikes are prone to fork seals leaking from even little things like dirt particles. When they start leaking, it is noticeable right away. Can happen seriously one minute after it was perfectly fine.Stop the blaming here w/o facts and understanding. Again, not standing up for anyone, but truth be told, the seals COULD HAVE EASILY STARTED LEAKING ON HIS WAY HOME and WILL NOT CAUSE A BIKE TO PULL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) To clearify what Lizard said, the forks act together on the triple, and it keeps them the same length. Now the one with a stiffer spring (or more oil, thicker oil, etc) may be taking on more of the bike's weight, but it would take something bending/twisting for the bike to pull to one side or the other because they act as one system.Your mental experiment is flawed. Consider this system:This is similar to the forks on a bike. To assist the visualization, image that the black object can slide up and down the blue pipes while the blue pipes stay stationary. The forks act in a similar way. Now back to the visualization, try to slide one side of the black object further than the other. It wont happen, because it pulls the other side with it. Now pretend that the black object is two forks connected by a triple. For your experiment to work, you would have to force your metal bar to always be perpendicular to the two springsis that clear? (I have to ask because I think a little... "differently" sometimes, ) Edited April 7, 2009 by wrillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Good bye again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 nice write up wrillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 The fork travel is at the other end...take off the tire and you can move them with little effort independent of each other all day. One of the signs of one of them being bad uneven tire wear? Why? because they are moving independent of each other. You can also see poor or worsening handling with one being bad. The other won't take up the slack as much as you think over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) The travel is on the other end on some bikes, thats why I said the system was similar. I still have to disagree about them moving independently. I edited my image above to draw in the axle. Maybe it is more clear now? but with the axle on the other end holding both blue shafts parallel w.r.t. eachother and perpendicular w.r.t the axle itself (and the triple), I'm certain its impossible for one to compress more than the otheredit: oh, to address your uneven tire wear issue. Even in this configuration it is still possible for one fork to exert more force on the tire than the other fork. For example, like I said before if one has a stiffer spring, that spring will hold more of the weight. Even if there was only 1 spring on 1 side of the bike, they would still move together until stuff started bending.someone please prove me wrong if I am so I don't continue to make an ass of myself (& confuse poeple) if I am just thinking about this wrong. Edited April 7, 2009 by wrillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Like I said, uneven wear on a tire is a sign of one of the shocks being bad and compressing more than the other. This isn't some made up scenario...it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Like I said, uneven wear on a tire is a sign of one of the shocks being bad and compressing more than the other. This isn't some made up scenario...it happens.and I agree with you 100% on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusDave01 Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 mad props to gixxie for throwin the r6 in the back of hsi truck and rollin with me to middletow, russ and aaron where there waiting for us and we had a nice chat and they put the bike on the lift and gonna be first in line tomorrow, so props to gixxie and middletown cycle..now lets just say a prayer its nothing major... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The owner and shop manager at the shop were eager to help. They deff cared what we all think on the forums and thats great!!! Dave no problem man! The sooner its fixed the sooner u will be on the road with all of us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusDave01 Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 yeah i cant wait man gonna be one bad ass summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 The fork travel is at the other end...take off the tire and you can move them with little effort independent of each other all day. One of the signs of one of them being bad uneven tire wear? Why? because they are moving independent of each other. You can also see poor or worsening handling with one being bad. The other won't take up the slack as much as you think over time.Wrong. The axle makes them one piece. The axle doesn't go up and down differently on the right or left independently...Look, forks act in unison and not separately. Uneven tire wear from one fork being bad? Seriously guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Like I said, uneven wear on a tire is a sign of one of the shocks being bad and compressing more than the other. This isn't some made up scenario...it happens.Dude, you cannot move them seperately at all unless unbolted. Uneven tire wear is from other influences - not the forks.Ask a suspension guy. Call Fitzgerald of Thermosman or Max at Traxxion if you don't believe me. They are secured at the top in the triples. They are secured at the base with the axle. No pivot points ANYWHERE other than to turn on a single axis at the steering post.It isn't like a front axle on a truck or car with two shocks. They have A-arms that allow independant travel of each side. Forks on a bike are not independant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 and I agree with you 100% on thatThey will both compress the same. Again, the old fork idea - one fork with oil and one with just spring. If they were both removed, one will travel or compress differently than the other. Bolted together at the axle, triple, etc., they travel up and down as one unit - not independantly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Good bye again.Why? Are you pissed that you are wrong? I mean, seriously, dude. What's up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Dude, you cannot move them seperately at all unless unbolted. Uneven tire wear is from other influences - not the forks.Ask a suspension guy. Call Fitzgerald of Thermosman or Max at Traxxion if you don't believe me. They are secured at the top in the triples. They are secured at the base with the axle. No pivot points ANYWHERE other than to turn on a single axis at the steering post.It isn't like a front axle on a truck or car with two shocks. They have A-arms that allow independant travel of each side. Forks on a bike are not independant...wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 wrongTell me how then. How can a solid axle that is bolted through both forks at the base that doesn't allow one side or the other to move up and down but in unison can be independant.There's no pivot at the base to allow that to happen. Again, you can put a .95 spring in one fork and a 1.00 spring in the other and get a .975 rate overall. That in of itself shows they work together as one unit.Your axle and the holes by which they are secured in the forks are machined to fit without slop or movement. They can only go in right to left or left to right. Once tigtehed, the axle is stationary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Tell me how then. How can a solid axle that is bolted through both forks at the base that doesn't allow one side or the other to move up and down but in unison can be independant.There's no pivot at the base to allow that to happen. Again, you can put a .95 spring in one fork and a 1.00 spring in the other and get a .975 rate overall. That in of itself shows they work together as one unit.Your axle and the holes by which they are secured in the forks are machined to fit without slop or movement. They can only go in right to left or left to right. Once tigtehed, the axle is stationary.who are you getting this whack info from brian?- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Ok, try this. I am showing a quick pic of two sets of forks. Figure A is what your bike has. Solid axle, triples and steering stem.Figure B shows one fork moved up and the other not. It's exagerated, but the idea is that you guys think one fork can travel up independant of the other. This is impossible. The front view of the axle looks like a rectangular block. In Figure B, it would have to incorporate a ball or a type of hinge to allow it to travel up or down independantly. The little circles represent that in Figure B. Your axle isn't like that. It is secured on both sides by pinch bolts. It is in a machined part of the fork that is machined to fit closely w/o slop and once tightened, has no play up or down. Basically, lift one fork with the axle bolted securely in as if the front wheel is on. Lift up on just the left fork. It will move the right fork up exactly the same amount. Why? They are acting as one unit... NOT independant.Now, you can have the forks in the triples where one is up higher than the other. That is why you tighten one fork where you want it, bolt the axle in and secure the other fork when the system is at rest. That allows unrestricted motion up and down and no binding occurs...You cannot move one fork up more than the other is the tops are secured in the triples and the bases are secured onto the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 who are you getting this whack info from brian?-Call it almost 20 years being around motorcycles and understanding them. If you don't believe me, call up any reputable suspension guy. Shit, I'll get Reuben to chime in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 hey brian- i was busting your balls all along.. just figured id try to get you going a little and it worked..to be honest i have no idea what you guys are bickering about or care! :bigfinger:on a serious not you got a 04-05 1000 midpipe handy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that dude Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Ok, try this. I am showing a quick pic of two sets of forks. Figure A is what your bike has. Solid axle, triples and steering stem.Figure B shows one fork moved up and the other not. It's exagerated, but the idea is that you guys think one fork can travel up independant of the other. This is impossible. The front view of the axle looks like a rectangular block. In Figure B, it would have to incorporate a ball or a type of hinge to allow it to travel up or down independantly. The little circles represent that in Figure B. Your axle isn't like that. It is secured on both sides by pinch bolts. It is in a machined part of the fork that is machined to fit closely w/o slop and once tightened, has no play up or down. Basically, lift one fork with the axle bolted securely in as if the front wheel is on. Lift up on just the left fork. It will move the right fork up exactly the same amount. Why? They are acting as one unit... NOT independant.Now, you can have the forks in the triples where one is up higher than the other. That is why you tighten one fork where you want it, bolt the axle in and secure the other fork when the system is at rest. That allows unrestricted motion up and down and no binding occurs...You cannot move one fork up more than the other is the tops are secured in the triples and the bases are secured onto the axle.good write up thou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 ^^ figure B = splat!, fall down and go boom.Seriously, isn't the hot new suspension item to have one fork for rebound and one for compression? Kinda reminds me of McPherson struts. We'll see how that goes. But if they were not a permanently attached pair in action and reaction, it wouldn't work.I have seen front forks flex to the side, from having a single disc up front. I do not recommend hanging out over the front end to see this, when hitting the front brake hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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