AngryBMW Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 My statement was accurate. I was posting in regards to the person making 20K and not being able to afford coverage. Yes our TAX Dollars are being used to subsides the price for the lower income person. But the same applies with your car insurance. If you wreck your car tomorrow the other people using your insurance company are paying to have your car fixed... Fucking Socialist car insurance. BTW, I believe you were trying to say: That we will also pay for, You fucking Idiot. Are our TAX dollars being used to cover auto insurance subsidies? No. Completely different argument. Idiot. No, I purposefully left out the comma to stress the tone of the message. Also, the word you were looking for is subsidize. You of all people should never try to correct someone else’s grammar. Know why? Wait for it… … … because you are an idiot. ALSO SHITTSBURG SUCKS Road's closed pizza boy; go home. (they do suck...shut up.) Just finished enrolling in my insurance for next year. my rates went up 11% So you are ok with your insurance premium increase of only 11% next year...and are ok with your taxes increasing to cover the ACA? I would assume Chase has a similar clause in their insurance that protects them from a significant, 1 year increase. Can't wait to see what it does next year. Even if it 'only' increases 11%, that would mean a 22% increase in two years. Did you receive an 11% increase in pay for next year? If not, will you see a 22% increase the following year to offset the premium? I would be shocked unless you received a huge promotion. With that said, you are stating you are 100% ok with earning significantly less money to pay for others. You shouldn’t be, and that is part of the problem. This isn't really a debate its more a fact. If people have wellness checks and basic maintenance it costs less in the endgame.. To many people do not get the basics taken care of as of today because they don't have coverage. Once again, you are stupid and your ignorance shines through. What do you think is one of the main reasons your insurance increased this year? Obvious answer is that it increased to cover the 'free' wellness checks that are now included in your insurance which are required by law. Insurance companies are not stupid; they will get their piece of the pie one way or another. How many people that will now qualify for insurance will actually take advantage of the 'free' wellness exams and preventative care? If and when these people do not use it, your argument is completely lost. I hope that 100% of the population does but in reality, it will be a very small percentage. Don't know if that will help you but I figured I'd post it. I hate to hear about people losing there jobs as much as the next person. Hopefully it works out for you and your staff. You voted for it, and you 100% support it. You are part of the reason that Tilley is considering downsizing/cutting benefits for his employees. Sleep well tonight, asshole. -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash1647545504 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 So after reading this thread I decided to get some quotes because thats what Ramsey is asking. First I searched "Colorado Health Insurance made easy by Clear Choice" Cheapest quote: United Health One (P80); Plan Type - Network, Deductable - $10,000 , Coinsurance - %20, Copay - NA, Monthley Payment - $115.65 Last Quote: Anthem (Premier); Plan Type - PPO, Deductable - $2,500, Coinsurance - %25, Copay $30, Monthley Payment - $302.00 Second I searched through "Afordable Health Insurance Plans" Cheapest Quote: United Health One, Office Visits - Not Covered, Deductable $10,000, Monthly Payment - $109.44 Last Quote: Rockey Mtn Health, Office Visits - $35, Deductable $2,500, Monthly Payment - $244.79 I make less that $22,900 per year. Most years on adverage I make about $15,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 AngryBMW take a deep breath...... Punch your desk or something.... First, Do you think people really won't take advantage of healthcare?? Really? Do you think people just want to be sick? You keep calling me and idiot, But from my perspective your the one spewing stupidity and making arguments based on the SPECULATION that people won't use there healthcare.... WTF My insurance has climbed at a rate of ~10-17% PER YEAR during my career. I don't see where a price hike of ~20$ per paycheck is such a huge ordeal. My pay increase of ~8% last year was 8% of my total income not 8% of what my insurance costs. So I don't quite see your point. The amount of money I bring home per paycheck went up from last year and that includes me increasing my 401k contribution by 1% and upping my HSA from 1000 to 2000$s. Last but not least. Yes I did vote for President Obama. That doesn't mean I agree 100% with everything the president does. I for one wanted the ACA to include a single payer setup. If you really think america's healthcare is so awesome explain to me why we pay the most to not even be in the top 10 for life expectancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbs3000 Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yeah, that's the difference, I'd think - I have to pay for multiple people and some of them are going to have substantial increases in their healthcare coverage. Plus, there might be some kind of premium that's being placed on group coverage for small businesses. Ironically, the major hikes in the coverage makes me think of cutting employees to eliminate the costs. For reference, our company (90ish) employees is looking at a 70% increase as well. They spent a mountain of time and effort trying to get a decent rate this year. The initial estimates they were getting were 130-150% increase. Also, worth noting is this is on top of the 30% (ish)increase last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) What a great article. Wonder how Thorne will say it's all lies... -Marc Nah he wont do that, he will just play the "progressive" card and choose to ignore it. (But you did read it Bill, so bravo, you're now one ounce more respected ) Wait for more incentives to entice people into the fed plan; They are all rolling out. Buy Obama insurance... Get FREE Obama I-phone... Incentives to get insurance... Good god it is comical. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/cell-phones-offered-obamacare-buyers-tennessee/ All I know is there are FAR better measures then creating fines, yes NOT TAXES, and higher rates to insure the total population. People will still smoke, eat like garbage, lack exercise (and I mean WALKING), lack the ability to take 30 minutes for a wellness check because they are the folks who are too damn lazy to even work, ect. All while I get to subsidize more of it, woo hoo, where do I sign in at the party and blow my kazoo. Edited October 9, 2013 by Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Actually I read it I commented too, You know me way better than that. Also The Obama Phone was not from obama it's an offshoot from a program that Ronald Reagan started called life line. 1. It’s an Obama phone. The program began almost three decades ago during the Reagan administration. Officials feared poor customers would struggle to cover higher phone service costs sparked by the breakup of the mammoth Bell System, known as Ma Bell. Lifeline officially became part of the Universal Service Fund in 1996 when Congress passed the Telecommunications Act. But it was under President George W. Bush in 2005 that the FCC started allowing some prepaid wireless providers to participate. This shift sparked tremendous growth. Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/obama-phone-facts-still-a-hang-up-in-washington-90606.html#ixzz2hFvlf8s5 Edited October 9, 2013 by Thorne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 If you really think america's healthcare is so awesome explain to me why we pay the most to not even be in the top 10 for life expectancy. You do realize it has less to deal with healthcare and more with life style when it comes to life expectancy right? But don't let the facts get in the way of a great story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 You do realize it has less to deal with healthcare and more with life style when it comes to life expectancy right? But don't let the facts get in the way of a great story... Interesting how there is a trend of the countries with universal healthcare having a longer life expectancy? How about Infant Mortality rates? Or how America Those supposed best country on this earth is the only industrialized country with out a universal healthcare system... How can we be the best if we don't even care of our own. http://sickothemovie.com/_media/SiCKO_sickofactoids.pdf ^ From Eighteen thousand people die each year because they are uninsured.5 According to the UN Human Development Report, “The uninsured are less likely to have regular outpatient care, so they are more likely to be hospitalized for avoidable health problems. Once in hospital, they receive fewer services and are more likely to die in the hospital than are insured patients. They also receive less preventive care. Over 40% of the uninsured do not have a regular place to go when they are sick and over a third of the uninsured say that they or someone in their family went without needed care, including recommended treatments or prescription drugs in the last year, because of cost.”6 ^ This speaks to Mr Angry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 People are ignoring the fact that today your paying for not only amiercans but illegals when they go to the ER and don't pay there bill. and that's still going to happen only now I'm going to be forced to pay for 40M more people and for those same people to now milk the medical system like they have the welfare system and other entitlements. Great. By making it easier for people to obtain basic services your reducing costs by creating a healthier population. unless you change the way they live their lives, you are only going to prolong their ability to milk the system, you're not going to create a healthier population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 AngryBMW take a deep breath...... Punch your desk or something.... First, Do you think people really won't take advantage of healthcare?? Really? Do you think people just want to be sick? You keep calling me and idiot, But from my perspective your the one spewing stupidity and making arguments based on the SPECULATION that people won't use there healthcare.... WTF My insurance has climbed at a rate of ~10-17% PER YEAR during my career. I don't see where a price hike of ~20$ per paycheck is such a huge ordeal. My pay increase of ~8% last year was 8% of my total income not 8% of what my insurance costs. So I don't quite see your point. The amount of money I bring home per paycheck went up from last year and that includes me increasing my 401k contribution by 1% and upping my HSA from 1000 to 2000$s. Last but not least. Yes I did vote for President Obama. That doesn't mean I agree 100% with everything the president does. I for one wanted the ACA to include a single payer setup. If you really think america's healthcare is so awesome explain to me why we pay the most to not even be in the top 10 for life expectancy. to this post, and your PM. You act like your singular perspective has ruined my day/life. Let me be clear: I have met you and spent time with you in real life. My opinion that you are an idiot has been validated with those meetings as well as your internet persona. Our personal interaction has been limited to car meets, or dealings with mutual relations involved with IPS employees. I will always be polite in public settings especially those focused around individuals not involved in other issues/conversations. With that said, I do try to avoid one on one conversations and interactions with those I dislike. You are, and will continue to be, one of those people. I am debating you now because your opinion may impact someone else’s (I honestly cannot imagine you influencing someone…but I suppose it is a possibility). If you convince people that are on the fence that the ACA is ok, then you have personally hurt me (and my wallet). I truly do not care that you are self educated (no shock there) as an IT guy or tuner. I would never let you tune my car, or work on my PC. Leave it at that as it is not related to this conversation. I believe your perspective to be wrong. Just as you believe mine to be. The issue is that I am not ok with more of my money being collected and spent against my will for people that choose to not work as hard or take care of their own person/families. It bothers me that you are ok with it and write it off as "well it's only $20...who cares?" The problem is that it is only $20 now, and going unchecked will just continue to snowball. When will the cost be enough for you to care? When it's an extra $100 per paycheck? $200? When will enough be enough for you? Don't forget this argument when your taxes go up and your take home goes down. No, I truly believe that people will take advantage of the ACA. ‘People’ being insurance companies raising premiums as well as shitty people abusing the ACA. Rest assured I 100% feel it will be taken advantage of. No, I do not believe the ACA will benefit the majority of the US population. It may cover more people now, but will still not be affordable to all and will end up costing the population and government significant money. And when subsidies 'make' it affordable, it will be paid for by people like you and I. I am not ok with that. The people that do use it that couldn't before will only bring additional costs to the whole. It’s a pretty simple concept; adding more people with more pre-existing conditions and the ability to get sick/hurt to a health plan that they do not pay for will raise the cost for those that do pay for it. Look at the numerous examples of leaches provided by Kirk and Austin. These people care more about poisoning themselves with what they eat and put in their bodies than they do about their health. Now they will feel that they can do even more harm to themselves and care even less because they have health care. Spend some time with these people, you will begin to understand. This is not ok. We just gave millions of people just like the examples above the green light to jump on the wagon and corrupt the system. What happens when the bills come out from the additional procedures to the people on subsidies and they cannot afford them (the medical bills/co-pays not covered under ‘wellness’, etc)? They will let them go unpaid and will eventually be covered by the rest of our premiums and cost of health care. This has been proven historically. Look no further than the examples already provided by Kirk and Austin. This is not ok. It disgusts me that you are ok with it. No, I do not think it is the .gov's responsibility to provide health care for me or for anyone else. It is not a right to have health care...just as it is not a right to have a free home, phone, car, etc. These are privileges that should be earned. Disagree? Move to a communist country so big brother can support you. I 100% support someone like Ben (Crash). He doesn’t report a lot of income, and was raised right and will not be a leach. Should he need medical care he will go to the hospital and receive care. He will get a bill, and will pay it off monthly, until it is paid in full. It will be cheaper for him to do this and pay the fine than to buy health insurance offered by the ACA. Why aren’t more people like him? If you disagree with the current ACA, then why support it so much? You support it so much because Obama wants you to. You are a sheep, and it is about time for slaughter. -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Interesting how there is a trend of the countries with universal healthcare having a longer life expectancy? How about Infant Mortality rates? Or how America Those supposed best country on this earth is the only industrialized country with out a universal healthcare system... How can we be the best if we don't even care of our own. http://sickothemovie.com/_media/SiCKO_sickofactoids.pdf ^ From Eighteen thousand people die each year because they are uninsured.5 According to the UN Human Development Report, “The uninsured are less likely to have regular outpatient care, so they are more likely to be hospitalized for avoidable health problems. Once in hospital, they receive fewer services and are more likely to die in the hospital than are insured patients. They also receive less preventive care. Over 40% of the uninsured do not have a regular place to go when they are sick and over a third of the uninsured say that they or someone in their family went without needed care, including recommended treatments or prescription drugs in the last year, because of cost.”6 ^ This speaks to Mr Angry Darwinism. Sorry to be a dick...but that's really not my problem. If you don't want to help yourself, I do not want nor should I be forced, to help you. -Marc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Interesting how there is a trend of the countries with universal healthcare having a longer life expectancy? No, THE TREND IN AMERICA IS WE EAT LIKE SHIT, DON'T EXERCISE, AND DON'T TAKE CARE OF OUR BODIES. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HEALTHCARE. Is that clear enough? Do you need a graph of a fatty on jazzy chair eating deep fried cookies and watching Tru-TV to make this more clear? I can't debate this anymore, your stupid wins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 BTW it's illegal to not have car insurance or a secured bond. and I love the law that makes it so because it doesn't make me pay for others insurance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Darwinism. Sorry to be a dick...but that's really not my problem. If you don't want to help yourself, I do not want nor should I be forced, to help you. -Marc I don't fix PC's BTW thats low end shit. But hey your convinced I'm stupid, Yet I work 2 jobs that are both considered to be highly skilled. There we go, had you started out like this we could have avoided all the wasted space. Your stance is this: If you walk into ER with a broken arm and don't have coverage you should be turned away. Period My stance is: We should have a universal healthcare system and no person should be forced into bankruptcy because an accident happens or someone gets sick. There's not much more to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 hold this place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpfiend Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 What is your cable bill, Columbus Racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 If you really think america's healthcare is so awesome explain to me why we pay the most to not even be in the top 10 for life expectancy. because we have one of the most unhealthy, fattest and laziest groups of poor people around. proof further that our poor people milk the system. rarely if ever except for the occasional meth head do you see a skinny ass poor person. that won't change by giving them healthcare either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 There we go, had you started out like this we could have avoided all the wasted space. Your stance is this: If you walk into ER with a broken arm and don't have coverage you should be turned away. Period My stance is: We should have a universal healthcare system. There's not much more to say. Once again, you are an idiot. I 100% support someone like Ben (Crash). He doesn’t report a lot of income, and was raised right and will not be a leach. Should he need medical care he will go to the hospital and receive care. He will get a bill, and will pay it off monthly, until it is paid in full. It will be cheaper for him to do this and pay the fine than to buy health insurance offered by the ACA. Why aren’t more people like him? Clear enough on my stance? Cover your own shit and do not expect me to pick up your slack. -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 and I love the law that makes it so because it doesn't make me pay for others insurance! you are paying for other peoples car repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Your stance is this: If you walk into ER with a broken arm and don't have coverage you should be turned away. Period My stance is: We should have a universal healthcare system and no person should be forced into bankruptcy because an accident happens or someone gets sick. There's not much more to say. I wrecked my uninsured car into some dudes lambo. I totaled his 100k car, and he had another 200k in medical bills. I chose not insure my car.. I thought I was a good driver. Why should I be forced into bankruptcy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Once again, you are an idiot. Clear enough on my stance? Cover your own shit and do not expect me to pick up your slack. -Marc So how the fuck am I the idiot, I said exactly that. It's really easy to toss words around when you don't have to back them up. Since the Evidence speaks otherwise shrug. Coverage doesn't have to be insurance. He can cover the cost by whipping out the old plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I wrecked my uninsured car into some dudes lambo. I totaled his 100k car, and he had another 200k in medical bills. I chose not insure my car.. I thought I was a good driver. Why should I be forced into bankruptcy? Well to start with you were breaking the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 you are paying for other peoples car repairs. and you condone that? do you think all other drivers should pay for said repairs? I say if they can't afford it, fucking walk or buy a bike. why should I pay for the insurance of the poor? let said cost fall as a line item on tax returns for bleeding hearts to contribute and pay for them. let's see how many people "really support" healthcare for all when they have to pay the way for them vs spreading that shit out on the rest of us who are responsible for our own. in the there's no free fucking lunch. the poor will pay in other ways such as job cuts, lower wages, increased costs for the good they have to buy, lower charitable donations, etc. They will also end up going to lower quality providers too because the better doctors won't be taking those plans. The only real solution is to get their asses up and accountable for their own actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Well to start with you were breaking the law. See the Difference? Nope. Because in reality, if I wreck my car without insurance I expect to have to go bankrupt. I'm fed up with laws to protect us from ourselves. If you are too fucking stupid to cover yourself... well you get what you deserve. Don't give me the un-insurable BS. When HIPAA was passed in 1996 they required group plans to accept people regardless of pre-existing conditions. So you either A. Work for someone who offers a group plan or B. Dont work, and get on medicare medicaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 and you condone that? do you think all other drivers should pay for said repairs? I say if they can't afford it, fucking walk or buy a bike. why should I pay for the insurance of the poor? let said cost fall as a line item on tax returns for bleeding hearts to contribute and pay for them. let's see how many people "really support" healthcare for all when they have to pay the way for them vs spreading that shit out on the rest of us who are responsible for our own. in the there's no free fucking lunch. the poor will pay in other ways such as job cuts, lower wages, increased costs for the good they have to buy, lower charitable donations, etc. The only real solution is to get their asses up and accountable for their own actions. Ummm it's called pooling your risk. You act like every person who's down and out choose to be there. Shit happens. Cancer is a wonderful example. You don't get cancer because your fat or your poor or any other factor. People who are perfectly healthy otherwise can get Cancer. Now by the stance of hard core consertives those people should just cover them selves...... If someone broke into your house would you grab your gun and go out on the streets hunting for the perpetrator or would you call the police? How about your house gets hit my lightning and catches fire? Would you get the water hose out and try to put the fire out or call the fire department. My stance is healthcare should be the same way. And I accept that other disagree with me. What I don't accept is assholes calling me an idiot because my stance is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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