Orion Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Well, I'd say it's pretty clear that Ben believes the statement to be true, and that he thinks the government should be the one enforcing a playing field leveled more towards giving the less fortunate a means to escape their situation. That sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Good place for this: Opening scene to Newsroom How many like Monopoly? If player one starts out with 90% of the properties, what is the likelihood of 6 other starting players being able to win or even catch up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 To DJ's question: I think villifying the rich doesn't benefit anyone that isn't in the 1%. Two negatives (being rich is bad, and being poor is bad) will never solve the problem. Society's perception (acceptance) of poverty doesn't help either. What do you mean by 'the problem', and in what way do you feel society accepts poverty? The real issue is that the distribution of wealth in America as I viewed it from that video, can lead to a toppling economy. If you disagree, I'd like to hear your reason why. The idea that any single person can 'make it' in America due to the way our free market economy runs is inaccurate, as in reality the majority of times it's poor people fighting over scraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 How many like Monopoly? If player one starts out with 90% of the properties, what is the likelihood of 6 other starting players being able to win or even catch up? That's a massive oversimplification to an extraordinarily complex economic environment that exists in the U.S. today. According to Eli, people should stop looking at the U.S.A. as a "land of opportunity", stop coming here from all walks of life around the globe, and STOP working hard to make a difference for themselves, their families, and their legacy because they didn't get a head start from birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I keep re-reading my posts and can't find where I asked for rich peoples money to pay my bills because I am going to lose all my shit? I don't even know. This shit is dumb. All I wanted this to be about is an adult discussion on how we fix our national Debt, and the social and economic inequalities that exist today in America. It's too hard to ignore them anymore. We as a nation need to come together and fix this shit, and start treating others with respect. Edited October 30, 2013 by zeitgeist57 spelling corrections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Well, I'd say it's pretty clear that Ben believes the statement to be true, and that he thinks the government should be the one enforcing a playing field leveled more towards giving the less fortunate a means to escape their situation. That sound about right? Yes, that first video blew my mind that place is in the lower 48 and is 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) What do you mean by 'the problem', and in what way do you feel society accepts poverty? The real issue is that the distribution of wealth in America as I viewed it from that video, can lead to a toppling economy. If you disagree, I'd like to hear your reason why. The idea that any single person can 'make it' in America due to the way our free market economy runs is inaccurate, as in reality the majority of times it's poor people fighting over scraps. The "problem" in this context is both poverty, and the income/wealth inequality in the U.S.. Rofflesauce that you ask me how society accepts poverty, then mention people "fighting over scraps". Hadn't seen that clip from "Newsroom". Very cool. Seriously, Eli...any conversation you, Ben and DJ want to have about this you can hit me up in person. Edited October 31, 2013 by zeitgeist57 Watched "Newsroom" clip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 To DJ's question: I think villifying the rich doesn't benefit anyone that isn't in the 1%. Two negatives (being rich is bad, and being poor is bad) will never solve the problem. Society's perception (acceptance) of poverty doesn't help either. What do I have to do AFTER I recognize that poverty could have been my own life situation? Wallow in an enlightened sense of self-pity? make sure I post a CV of civic/religious/charitable duties I've performed to validate my opinions??? I think it's extremely hypocritical viewpoint to "judge" those that are judging...CLIFFS: You're doing it yourself! This is the last post I'm making in this thread, because it's an academic circle-jerk lightly disguised as a social review and "reality check". Well, that's an unfortunate point of view. You are one of the more intellectual members, and it will lessen the conversation to not have you in it. I've never heard of anyone "wallowing" in their enlightenment. To the contrary, enlightenment tends to bring about change, or at least acceptance. Certainly no one is asking you to quantify or even justify what you do or don't do for the poor. In fact, there are, essentially, no action items throughout the thread. However, that can be true for what I would guess is the majority of threads on CR. This entire site is overrun with "academic circle jerk" type threads. I AM making judgments about individuals, based upon their responses to the goings on of the thread. That is not only natural, but necessary. I expect that the other contributors are doing the same about/regarding me and MY responses. I am doing my level best not to condemn anyone as a result of those judgments, however. EDIT: Man, I need to type faster. Missed a few responses.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 That's a massive oversimplification to an extraordinarily complex economic environment that exists in the U.S. today. According to Eli, people should stop looking at the U.S.A. as a "land of opportunity", stop coming here from all walks of life around the globe, and STOP working hard to make a difference for themselves, their families, and their legacy because they didn't get a head start from birth. Is that seriously what you took away from what I said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Good place for this: Opening scene to Newsroom How many like Monopoly? If player one starts out with 90% of the properties, what is the likelihood of 6 other starting players being able to win or even catch up? Great clip of that show, and great speech. And very low without some "luck". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verse Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I keep re-reading my posts and can't find where I asked for rich peoples money to pay my bills because I am going to lose all my shit? I don't even know. This shit is dumb. All I wanted this to be about is an adult discussion on how we repay our national Debit, and the social and economical inequalities that exist today in America. It's too hard to ignore them anymore. We as a nation need to come together and fix this shit, and start treating others with respect. In a perfect world, that'd be ideal, but this isn't a perfect world. If we re pay the debt of the country, it'll just go back up again until the system is fixed. Let's say they distributed money evenly to everyone, you'd still have people who would blow through it in a matter of days/weeks/months. It's the same thing when people win the lottery. You have plenty of people who have invested their winnings and provided for their family and themselves, but you hear more about the people who are broke within a year or two. Poor are gonna be poor, rich are gonna be rich. There are plenty of people who this would help immensely, but you have just as many who would squander it away with bad choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Though I've not thoroughly read all of this thread. I don't feel I'm going toward anything more than we have things pretty good I'm the US. Even if it is getting worse everyday. Someone can come from nothing and make a pretty good life for themselves. The politics. The balance of money through society. I don't get into that because I don't feel I have an educated opinion that would make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Though I've not thoroughly read all of this thread. I don't feel I'm going toward anything more than we have things pretty good I'm the US. Even if it is getting worse everyday. Someone can come from nothing and make a pretty good life for themselves. Joe, I could not agree more with you. This whole conversation should definitely be viewed in context. Carls statement that we don't really know poor like a shoeless kid in Istanbul does is dead on. HOWEVER, we do have people in this country that are in places, financially, that suck, and that are hard to get out of. And THAT is what we are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Joe, I could not agree more with you. This whole conversation should definitely be viewed in context. Carls statement that we don't really know poor like a shoeless kid in Istanbul does is dead on. HOWEVER, we do have people in this country that are in places, financially, that suck, and that are hard to get out of. And THAT is what we are talking about. I have read the posts...understood the context... I have contributed thought-out, grammatically-appropriate responses... I am a person of "market-competitive intellect"... ...and I couldn't disagree with you more about this, DJ. I understand the context from what is being said(typed) and what is being implied. You're looking for people that don't 100% agree with a CNN video to explain themselves. Explain themselves like disagreeing with the video is wrong. Explain themselves like there is a simple, binary solution that you're looking to solve with a discussion on an automotive forum. Explain themselves so that others will benefit from a discussion that, in society today, regarding THIS topic, is politically slanted to one side. I've tried to comment appropriately on the comments thus far and I see that it's no longer a valuable endeavor. Anyone that wants to talk to me about this can hit me up anytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Moving forward in this discussion, we might do well to view 3 different items in perspective (as all of our perspectives differ): THE PROBLEM THE CAUSE THE SOLUTION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have read the posts...understood the context... I have contributed thought-out, grammatically-appropriate responses... I am a person of "market-competitive intellect"... ...and I couldn't disagree with you more about this, DJ. I understand the context from what is being said(typed) and what is being implied. You're looking for people that don't 100% agree with a CNN video to explain themselves. Explain themselves like disagreeing with the video is wrong. Explain themselves like there is a simple, binary solution that you're looking to solve with a discussion on an automotive forum. Explain themselves so that others will benefit from a discussion that, in society today, regarding THIS topic, is politically slanted to one side. I've tried to comment appropriately on the comments thus far and I see that it's no longer a valuable endeavor. Anyone that wants to talk to me about this can hit me up anytime. For real, if there are "facts" in the video that are incorrect, then by all means, let's hear some other numbers....If someone posted some earlier, I must have missed it. Disputing the legitimacy of the vid is fair game, for sure. And also, I don't expect those great minds of CR (mine included) to be able to SOLVE an issue like this. What I want people to explain is why they stand where they stand, and then to defend that stance. It's what I expect people to want me to explain as well. Like you said, this is academic. But, it IS enlightening. God forgive me for saying this about a thread on CR, but I feel like this thread has added to me, as opposed to subtracting from me in terms of my knowledge and understanding of other people and their individual situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshymkiw83 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 All I wanted this to be about is an adult discussion on how we fix our national Debt, and the social and economic inequalities that exist today in America. You can't have it all, plain and simple. You fix our Debt by spending less. Spending less means cutting 1 of 2 things - Military or Social Programs. If you cut Social programs you can't have 'economic equality' If you cut the Military you can't have 'social equality' The smart thing is to ensure 'social eqaulity' so all people have the choice/ability to make something of themselves, and succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Disgusting. this x 1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have a reality check for the people that support the "spreading of wealth". You act like you know and can empathize about struggle. you haven't ever seen what they are talking about in large enough doses to claim yourself as an expert. So sit the fuck down and stop doing what "liberals do often" and shove opinions in other people's faces. FACT - I worked hard for what I have. Why should I share it. Another FACT - maybe other people perceive "hard work" differently than I do and that their barometer is different than mine. Hence why there are people making 60K out there thinking they are doing well, and people making 60K out there thinking they are making dogshit. PEACE, FUCK PEACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 From what i can find(2011 stat) 80% of US households make between 10k-140k a year, 50% making 25k-85k and an overall mean of 50k. Wouldnt that suggest that most of america is doing pretty well? We live in a country of some super unrealistic rich people that skew the numbers terribly in the wrong way. Along with the fact a % of people not reporting income or even trying to earn an income due to the fact you can live off government funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have a reality check for the people that support the "spreading of wealth". You act like you know and can empathize about struggle. you haven't ever seen what they are talking about in large enough doses to claim yourself as an expert. So sit the fuck down and stop doing what "liberals do often" and shove opinions in other people's faces. FACT - I worked hard for what I have. Why should I share it. Another FACT - maybe other people perceive "hard work" differently than I do and that their barometer is different than mine. Hence why there are people making 60K out there thinking they are doing well, and people making 60K out there thinking they are making dogshit. PEACE, FUCK PEACE Tell us about your struggles Bob. Are you an attractive white male? Can you tell us about how have you been oppressed? Were you afforded the opportunity to attend college? The way intelligent discussion works is by understanding the argument from both sides. I was poor, now I'm not. I support a system that provides for the opportunity to do well. I believe that there should be social services that provide for the basics of human survival for everyone in our country. I don't believe that if you give people the basics to survive then their motivation for more goes away. Perhaps our education system is to blame, both how we educate our wealthy that more is ALWAYS better, and how we educate our poor since they probably don't know what they can achieve and how they can achieve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubar231 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH TAX THE RICH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furloaf Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 THE RICH HAVE TOO MUCH DAMN MONEY AND I WANT SOME OF IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Wow.... 1st. Ben, you do realize the difference between wealth and income, right? You know why these numbers look so crazy? Because you can't have less than nothing. But the top is limitless. It's only common sense that the gap will continue to spread. I also am learning that CR is full of idealists. And not just socialist ones. Ben is the obvious one, but Jones was a surprise. Any of you who believe that "working hard, and doing the right/smart thing" is going to elevate you to that upper echelon of income are just as, if not more than, idealistic than Ben. Neither is a bad thing, so don't hear me hating, I'm just trying to elevate the awareness level of the thread. Why does it have to get you to the "upper echelon"? Most of the "upper echelon" people had someone in their family (maybe generations ago) who decided to work hard and do the right things. Through GENERATIONS of hard work and continuing to do the right things, their wealth accumulated. Which brings us to another problem with this county... peoples need for immediate gratification. If you wanna "Live like today is your last, because tomorrow may never come"... don't come crying for help when tomorrow shows up and you are unprepared. Good place for this: Opening scene to Newsroom Love this. Seriously, I wish Will Mcavoy was a real person. How many like Monopoly? If player one starts out with 90% of the properties, what is the likelihood of 6 other starting players being able to win or even catch up? Close.... but it's an apples to oranges comparison. If, after finishing monopoly the game restarted, and the people who "won the game" got to keep X% of what they accumulated and they could pass this on to "team members", of coarse people on that "team" would have an advantage. What our forefathers fought for was NOT for people to get free monopoly money and plastic buildings off of people who have excelled in the game for a very long time. They fought so you could get a seat at the table to play yourself. Do the right things, long enough (ie. possibly GENERATIONS) and you too can be the person you admire. (or hate... if your Ben) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I will argue that almost all of CR falls in the 8 out 10 group. Maybe a few are barely outside of the 8 out of 10. Still consider yourself middle class? I don't consider my family middle class anymore. I work and so does my wife. We pay our taxes, but it's time to cut into the pockets of rich Americans and corporations, they can afford it. Speaking of reality checks.... How much in taxes do you think are collected from the "middle class" annually? and How much in taxes do you think are collected from "the wealthy" and corporations annually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.