downingracing Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I started a chumpcar endurance racing team with some friends last year. We only made it to one event but had a good time. (Ran at Michigan International and finished 8th and 7th). We are planning to do the Father's Day weekend race at Gingerman a raceway in Michigan. We have a Honda Civic (not shocking for anyone who knows me) and with a few small updates, we are hoping to finish better this year! Car is dead nuts reliable and easy to drive. Wondering if anyone else here is doing any Chump racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'm not racing but will be helping sponsor a car and do some work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 My buddies have done it several years now but have upgraded to endurance races in non-chump cars. Looks to be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I helped run a Lemons effort a few years back - but want to try Chump. Seems to be more about the racing - less about a "show". I also have a Fire Arrow that would be a prime time Chump...if only I had more time and space.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Yea. Lemons didn't have any appeal to us. Chump is fun in a laid back and 'easy' way. Nothing like sprint racing, but a different type of fun. Talent pool was very shallow at the event we attended, but a lower car count made for an enjoyable weekend. We are looking forward to the 14hr race at Gingerman. The appeal of Chump to us was running a stock car and just having fun. The car is not high strung and nothing fancy/aftermarket to cause issues. Just fun. I'm hoping someone from here is active in Chump and will be at Gingerman - would be nice to see some other CR folks at the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig71188 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yea. Lemons didn't have any appeal to us. Chump is fun in a laid back and 'easy' way. Nothing like sprint racing, but a different type of fun. Talent pool was very shallow at the event we attended, but a lower car count made for an enjoyable weekend. We are looking forward to the 14hr race at Gingerman. The appeal of Chump to us was running a stock car and just having fun. The car is not high strung and nothing fancy/aftermarket to cause issues. Just fun. I'm hoping someone from here is active in Chump and will be at Gingerman - would be nice to see some other CR folks at the track. Yep - the Lemons thing less all the "sideshow shit" could have been that way. I still prefer endurance racing over sprints - having been involved in IMSA GTU, Escort/Playboy series and far too many (or not near enough?) of "The Longest Day" events - for me, nothing else really compares. I don't know if I have it in me to organize another effort, but I would be willing to serve in an advisory/driver role for a team if they were interested.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31rx7 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Matt, keep me in mind if you need a driver. I need an excuse to get on track. Well, an excuse and a few spare bucks also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I did two events last year (VIR 10-hour and BeaveRun double 7), my team did a third event (LeMons @ NJMP) without me. Our car is an '86 Prelude that we bought from a LeMons guy who was upgrading to an E36. We made it through nearly all of the 10-hour with our timing belt off a tooth, which is to say the car was dogshit slow but it still proved its worth. Then the engine blew at NJMP, and it blew twice at BeaveRun. This after spending a small fortune (per the ChumpCar rules) on replacing parts in order to be "reliable." Call it bad luck, but we spent a lot of time and money for not a lot of track time, and I've grown to hate the ChumpCar organizers. The Prelude is in a barn right now pending some motivation to fix and sell it, and meanwhile one of my wealthier teammates bought a very clean E36 328i for us to campaign in 2015. Just running a couple of Chump races plus a scaled-back HPDE schedule has left me financially drained for this year. Maybe I'll see you out there in 2015. Check us out here: https://www.facebook.com/hipsterracing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergwheel1647545492 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I really want to get a car and do a race. What do you recommend for a platform? sounds like you just gut the car, remove windows and then get a roll cage. The cage is that part that I'm worried about. Seems like that would take a decent amount of cash to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Being honest - the cage is the easy part. We have way more money in the 'rebuild the entire freaking car' than any other items (safety or go-fast parts). It sounds like you just get a beater and cage it to go racing. The people I saw doing just that didn't turn 50 laps the entire weekend. The platform we chose was a Civic. (Not shocking to anyone who knows me). Parts are available at any corner store and they are cheap! Our car was rebuilt from the ground up and survived two 7 hour races finishing 8th and 7th. We were the only entry that wasn't cheating (even the tech guy asked why we left it stock)... The racing is fun! Nothing like a sprint race - more like a lapping day with open passing. Still a freaking blast! PM me if you want to discuss further. I'm always happy to talk racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'll defer to Mr. Downing on the finer arts of racecar building, but to give you an idea of the costs, here's what Hipster Racing burned through for a year of racing. We bought the car + trailer for $2200, incl. cage, racing seat, and I supplied a harness that I didn't charge the team for. This was divided 3 ways, plus gas to go pick it up in NC and we were in about $850 a person just to get the car on our property. So far, so cheap. We needed to add some things for Chump like a window net. We needed stuff for the pit, like fuel jugs, a 55 gallon barrel with a pump, a big fire extinguisher, and radios ($560 by themselves). We bought some spares to have with us, oil, filters, spark plugs, head gasket, new battery, etc. I don't have the pre-race stuff broken out from the shit we bought between races to fix parts that broke, but all told we're at just over $6000 for the car + trailer, or $2,052 per person for our core team. Getting less cheap. I spent about $500 for a decent used racing suit and shoes, my teammates all spent less on their suits but had to get helmets as well, figure $600-$700 per driver. The races themselves were $1650, $2540, and $2010, divided by either 4 or 5 drivers. That's entry fee, gas for the car, gas for the tow vehicle, transponder rental, and lodging. Doesn't include food. So if I'd have done all 3 races, plus my role in buying the car and the safety equipment, I'd have spent about $4000 for a year of racing an '86 Prelude, which wouldn't have been terrible if it would have run the whole time. I'm sure you can spend less, but you could also spend a whole lot more. And a lot of that stuff was one-time purchases that will be spread out. But still, that's a whole lotta track days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Our Civic runs and drives like new. (As it should because it has all new parts just about everywhere). We replace several items after each race and other parts after every weekend. These costs aside, we spent $6k in cash and $3k in already 'had' them parts to build the car. So right at $9k for the bone stock Civic. Crazy I know when you can buy a race-ish ready car for 1/4 that. But our car should finish every race we run. Maintenance and upkeep are key for endurance racing. That price does include the required Chump items like fuel jugs, extinguisher and other small items. The cost above doesn't include any driver safety equipment. We all already have our own. No radio setup - cool old pit board! Motorhome, trailer, easy up and other items are all things we have from our 'other' racing. Entry fees, maintenance items and travel expenses are additional. We spent a stupid amount of money to do this, but it is a blast and in a sick way - worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergwheel1647545492 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Our Civic runs and drives like new. (As it should because it has all new parts just about everywhere). We replace several items after each race and other parts after every weekend. These costs aside, we spent $6k in cash and $3k in already 'had' them parts to build the car. So right at $9k for the bone stock Civic. Crazy I know when you can buy a race-ish ready car for 1/4 that. But our car should finish every race we run. Maintenance and upkeep are key for endurance racing. That price does include the required Chump items like fuel jugs, extinguisher and other small items. The cost above doesn't include any driver safety equipment. We all already have our own. No radio setup - cool old pit board! Motorhome, trailer, easy up and other items are all things we have from our 'other' racing. Entry fees, maintenance items and travel expenses are additional. We spent a stupid amount of money to do this, but it is a blast and in a sick way - worth it. if you need another driver let me know! I'd be willing to cover my share of expenses of course just can't see spending 9k and then $1100 per race at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentStateTsi Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) We have a few races down here that I've wanted to attend. I'm worried about the replaced parts penalty. How many teams actually leave their cars stock? Is the best bet just to sign up for the EC class? http://www.chumpcar.com/endurance/rules.php Edited January 29, 2014 by KentStateTsi still researching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Gergwheel - thanks for the offer but we don't rent seats. We've got too much money in the car to have anyone else in it (other than our inner circle who can pay to replace the car if they bend it). Kentstatetsi - we were the only team with a completely stock car. Even the tech crew asked why we left is stock... We are following the rules 100% because we have too much in it to screw around with cheating. (But that is how we treat all the racing we do) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 We are doing the budget for the upcoming 14h and 7h races at Gingerman Raceway Father's Day weekend and it looks like we will be right at $850/each for this weekend. The cost includes entry, fuel (largest cost), food and spares/upgrades. (Small items that need to be 'better' than the original build). Just wants to share the cost information for anyone interested in seeing what it actually costs to do this. Our fuel cost includes a 30' motorhome, truck pulling a 24' enclosed trailer and the fuel for the Civic for both days. We joke about how people think Chump racing is cheap... It is a blast, but this costs me more than a club racing weekend. Potential for more seat time, but a different level of competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilagmike Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I was one of the other driver's with greg in the prelude and I kind of have to agree that it is a lot of money for not a lot of track time. Although everyone thinks it's cool, it gets really old fixing cars when you are paying to be on track. It is spectacular when you are racing, door to door racing is much more of a rush than just a normal track day, but I don't think it's worth 2 or 3 times the price to drive in a slow car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Have you guys done any 'club racing'? The rush I get from doing a sprint race is way more intense compared tot he enduro feeling. There is no sense of urgency in the enduro, so everyone avoids actually racing door to door. The sprint race doesn't give the time for taking it easy and has much more of a get it done now feel. I'm beat after a sprint race and was pretty OK after my almost 2 hr stints in the enduro. And I agree it is a good bit of money, but since I've been club racing (and doing these enduros), track days just don't 'do' it for me anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Thanks for the insight on Chumpcar. Honestly though, while not cheap, the costs don't seem much different than HPDE events. I'm easily at $850/weekend when you average out consumable costs over the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Once you have the safety equipment and the car is track ready, the cost to do track day vs. road race can be very close. The risk to the car is greater running w2w, but it is still there anytime you take your car on the track. It's good to know there are others on here who do track days/race! I'd like to see more action in this section of the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The big difference for me is that I don't have a truck and trailer, nor do I have the budget to buy one or the room to keep it. One of the appealing factors of ChumpCar was that I was able to form a team with someone who had a truck, and another guy who had a place to keep our car and trailer. I'd love to get into club racing but I can't see it happening unless I move With a track day, I can still drive my car to a track day and be reasonably certain that I'll be able to drive it home, so that's what keeps the costs down for me. Matt, weren't you renting out an ITA car for race weekends a few years back? I seem to remember finding someone renting out a Civic when I first moved back to Columbus 4 years ago; I was considering that as a way to get my SCCA license without having to break my bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downingracing Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The big difference for me is that I don't have a truck and trailer, nor do I have the budget to buy one or the room to keep it. One of the appealing factors of ChumpCar was that I was able to form a team with someone who had a truck, and another guy who had a place to keep our car and trailer. I'd love to get into club racing but I can't see it happening unless I move With a track day, I can still drive my car to a track day and be reasonably certain that I'll be able to drive it home, so that's what keeps the costs down for me. Matt, weren't you renting out an ITA car for race weekends a few years back? I seem to remember finding someone renting out a Civic when I first moved back to Columbus 4 years ago; I was considering that as a way to get my SCCA license without having to break my bank. Yea - Not having to have those things can make it easier to get into. We try to factor in the 'expense' of using the motorhome and trailer into our budget. So the guy with the motorhome doesn't pay more than the rest of us. I do rent cars. I've got an ITA Spec Miata that I rent. But the 'write off' cost is more than the asking price for my Civic (that is for sale with all the spares)... Renting can be a way to get into racing, but sometimes buying is a cheaper option in the long run. If the rental doesn't get a scratch, it can be the way to go. But often you can buy a car and use it for drivers school and sell it after for about what you paid for it. And if you write it off, you already spent the money and don't owe more for a wrecked car. I rent the Miata including one set of tires and one set of brakes for $2000/weekend. You pick it up and return it at that price (plus deposit). Crash damage is the renters problem and is capped at $12k (I deduct the rental charge and deposit from that total amount if the car is a write-off to come to the actual amount owed). I've never rented the Miata. I usually talk people into buying a used race car and saving the money over the rental... Bad for my business, but I'm OK with it. I'd rather help people get into the sport than make a buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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