that dude Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 throw the book at him.......he was racing on a road with traffic on it.I've street raced quite a bit, but ALWAYS on back roads with 0 traffic on them.they do make tracks for racing you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Civil suits have nothing to do with criminal evidence.hows that possible? care to educate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 hows that possible? care to educate?And I quote myself, O.J. Simpson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 And I quote myself, O.J. Simpson.how about a third time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 they do make tracks for racing you know Def the best place to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I agree with who ever said it. What ever happens to one, the other should face the same consiquences. they were both involved and should pay equally. As for the victim, i feel very sorry for her. wrong place at the wrong time. If i were her i would have a civil suit on both their asses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I agree with who ever said it. What ever happens to one, the other should face the same consiquences. they were both involved and should pay equally. As for the victim, i feel very sorry for her. wrong place at the wrong time. If i were her i would have a civil suit on both their assesI'd sue the shit out of George's insurance company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 how about a third timeO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 how about a third timeJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 how about a third timeSimpson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 the reason is because criminal cases are judged guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt"and civil cases are judged "more guilty than not"different standards means different judgements can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Damn!PICS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balaormiga Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I'm not sure how to feel about this.on one hand, brandon wasn't the one who lost control and wrecked... so i'm hesitant to think he should be prosecuted for ANY of the charges, he didn't assault anyone with his car, OR kill anyone, it was george who did those things...I'm pretty sure I'd vote "not guilty" on all of the charges pressed.maybe a reckless op, or public endangerment charge would be warranted...but george died doing something of his own free will, it's not like he was an innocent bystander crossing the street, or monica, that was hit just driving home or whatever..He knew the risks, he chose to participate, end of story. His wife should definitely be charged with insurance fraud.My sentiments exactly!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balaormiga Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Here's my take. Note: I have no interest in this nor do I know anyone...1) Racing requires two or more people. You line up and race the other guy... If the racing causes a death, you are an accomplice. Tough shit. SUPPOSEDLY, it is stated the crash happened after the race. Sounds more like he let up due to the car breaking loose and it was "5 to 6 seconds after". Nobody is really going to know until after evidence, but it is still due to racing.... Even if it was after and the race was over, understand that a drunk guy was involved. Maybe this Brandon guy knew, maybe he didn't. IF he did, he is at fault for not only racing, but for not having the common sense to say "No." due to knowing a drunk guy racing could not only kill someone, but you as the guy racing him... Why would you even consider it?2) The racing is what led to the crash. Racing wouldn't have happened if there was nobody to race. If the guy was driving down the Interstate drunk and went left of center and did what he did, he'd be alone in this. He wasn't. 3) The chase vehicle was not racing. Probably at a high rate of speed, but wasn't in the race. If I am following someone at say, 80 mph on the street and they loose control and crash, am I at fault? If I am racing the guy at a high rate of speed and they crash, the situation got out of hand and I am also responsible - I had a hand (arguably) in the crash. I kind of "provoked" it... The video people were doing something wrong, as well, but it wasn't anything like the two racing were doing.Also, consider this - she might have agreed to a plea bargain if she gave the facts and what exactly happened. If it is found she lied about anything, I am willing to bet she gets some serious shit thrown her way, too.Look, there's a lot of people with personal interests here. You really need to step back and look at it without any bias. You think they are targeting Brandon just because the wife gets off seemingly. Just look at Brandon only. He raced the guy. The guy crashed and almost killed a TOTALLY innocent bystander. Being the guy that didn't die is the same as the guy that was killed. They were BOTH racing. They BOTH made the same decision. This isn't a "racing incident" that occurs at the track. It was a "racing incident" that occurred out in public and severely hurt someone that had NO CHOICE.Reality sucks and it hurts at times. I hate that someone got killed, but he essentially got off pretty easy. Think about that girl. She's fucked for the rest of her life and she wasn't at fault. Brandon should pay somewhat. How much should he pay for? I think at least the Manslaughter charge and reckless op and drag racing. I also think the wife should have some sort of price to pay since she, I guess had a part in setting it up. But, that becomes hearsay and if she gave a full account of what happened and placed names and times exactly as it occurred and it can be proven, she probably got off. But, then again, she wasn't racing the guy that died, either...Good arguments! I agree Brandon should be penalized in some way. I just do not agree it should be with manslaughter. I daresay few if any of us have never excessively accelerated next to another car at a traffic light at one point in our lives. Call it a race if you will. Now picture yourself at a traffic light. The guy next to you revs his motors and pulls away from the traffic light. You decide to have a little fun, though not interested in a full blown drag race, and accelerate as well. The other guy swerves for whatever reason - hits another car - and kills someone.Now you may have never even exceeded the speed limit but because you were beside the guy and accelerating "excessively" it could be argued you were drag racing. When you had no intentions of exceeding the speed limit and thus woudl have had full control of YOUR vehicle. You may even be quite a ways behind the other driver when the accident happens.Should you be charged with manslaughter for what started out and would have ended as a quick spurt for fun?Circumstances need to be examined closely on ALL sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 O.J.Simpson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVDon Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Good arguments! I agree Brandon should be penalized in some way. I just do not agree it should be with manslaughter. I daresay few if any of us have never excessively accelerated next to another car at a traffic light at one point in our lives. Call it a race if you will. Now picture yourself at a traffic light. The guy next to you revs his motors and pulls away from the traffic light. You decide to have a little fun, though not interested in a full blown drag race, and accelerate as well. The other guy swerves for whatever reason - hits another car - and kills someone.Now you may have never even exceeded the speed limit but because you were beside the guy and accelerating "excessively" it could be argued you were drag racing. When you had no intentions of exceeding the speed limit and thus woudl have had full control of YOUR vehicle. You may even be quite a ways behind the other driver when the accident happens.Should you be charged with manslaughter for what started out and would have ended as a quick spurt for fun?Circumstances need to be examined closely on ALL sides.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Good arguments! I agree Brandon should be penalized in some way. I just do not agree it should be with manslaughter. I daresay few if any of us have never excessively accelerated next to another car at a traffic light at one point in our lives. Call it a race if you will. Now picture yourself at a traffic light. The guy next to you revs his motors and pulls away from the traffic light. You decide to have a little fun, though not interested in a full blown drag race, and accelerate as well. The other guy swerves for whatever reason - hits another car - and kills someone.Now you may have never even exceeded the speed limit but because you were beside the guy and accelerating "excessively" it could be argued you were drag racing. When you had no intentions of exceeding the speed limit and thus would have had full control of YOUR vehicle. You may even be quite a ways behind the other driver when the accident happens.Should you be charged with manslaughter for what started out and would have ended as a quick spurt for fun?Circumstances need to be examined closely on ALL sides.Actually, under your scenario, you would be racing. He revved, you accepted by launching and running to a set point before you shut it down.In Ohio, the laws governing drag racing is more severe than DUI. Reason being is that years and years ago, drag racing was very common and had dire results. Thus, heavy rules and penalties came about to try and prevent it from happening. They never let up on them...If you accept a race - especially this one concerning Brandon where they sat down and laid out the race beforehand, you are accepting responsibility for your actions. They were BOTH racing. B-O-T-H... That means that they both accepted the responsibility if it got out of hand and someone got hurt. Unfortunately, the other guy died and couldn't be tried for what he did. Brandon can be argued to have a stake in the cause of the guy going out of control. Afterall, had he been responsible for his actions and had any bit of sense, he would have declined and said "no" to the challenge. Instead, he accepted and they raced. Someone died, someone got seriously hurt and won't ever be the same again, and one got to pay for his actions. It's a tough deal, but somebody has to pay for that poor girl and guess what? Dead guys don't hold up well in the courtroom...We all have done it. I've done it. Saying you do it on desolate back roads means nothing. What happens if the guy you are racing crashes and gets killed? Is that any better? You probably won't get manslaughter, but you're probably going to face a civil suit.As far as the manslaughter charge goes, I think it is fitting the crime. He raced and his actions led to a death and severely hurt woman. He's got to pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Should you be charged with manslaughter for what started out and would have ended as a quick spurt for fun?He wasn't being malicious and therefore wasn't going to get nailed for anything like murder or anything. Manslaughter is perfectly fine in this case. He killed a guy essentially. Basically, you need to ask what would have happened if he said "no". If that is this wouldn't have happened, there's your answer. If you find out that the other guy would have left drunk and crashed anyways, it would have been a tragic deal and a bummer, but the guy who was the SOLE cause of the accident is dead and cannot be charged.They stated they were racing. i think they were telling the truth about that. As stated by someone before, they should have just said it was an accident on the way home. But, they told the truth and now because of their racing, Brandon is left to pay the price.He was having fun, sure. But, this isn't a deal where you play a gag on a buddy. You aren't pulling a joke on him. Brandon's actions were set to be possibly dangerous and could have led to possible risk of his own life and others around him. The other guy is at fault, too for sure. But, everyone needs to realize what the results of one's actions can lead to. If death and serious injury is a high possibility, you shouldn't do it without willing to pay for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balaormiga Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, under your scenario, you would be racing. He revved, you accepted by launching and running to a set point before you shut it down.In Ohio, the laws governing drag racing is more severe than DUI. Reason being is that years and years ago, drag racing was very common and had dire results. Thus, heavy rules and penalties came about to try and prevent it from happening. They never let up on them...If you accept a race - especially this one concerning Brandon where they sat down and laid out the race beforehand, you are accepting responsibility for your actions. They were BOTH racing. B-O-T-H... That means that they both accepted the responsibility if it got out of hand and someone got hurt. Unfortunately, the other guy died and couldn't be tried for what he did. Brandon can be argued to have a stake in the cause of the guy going out of control. Afterall, had he been responsible for his actions and had any bit of sense, he would have declined and said "no" to the challenge. Instead, he accepted and they raced. Someone died, someone got seriously hurt and won't ever be the same again, and one got to pay for his actions. It's a tough deal, but somebody has to pay for that poor girl and guess what? Dead guys don't hold up well in the courtroom...We all have done it. I've done it. Saying you do it on desolate back roads means nothing. What happens if the guy you are racing crashes and gets killed? Is that any better? You probably won't get manslaughter, but you're probably going to face a civil suit.As far as the manslaughter charge goes, I think it is fitting the crime. He raced and his actions led to a death and severely hurt woman. He's got to pay...Actually there was no set point in my example. I have done this just to watch the other person zooom off while I immediately let off the gas and laughed.Probably not a good thing to do but..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balaormiga Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 He wasn't being malicious and therefore wasn't going to get nailed for anything like murder or anything. Manslaughter is perfectly fine in this case. He killed a guy essentially. Basically, you need to ask what would have happened if he said "no". If that is this wouldn't have happened, there's your answer. If you find out that the other guy would have left drunk and crashed anyways, it would have been a tragic deal and a bummer, but the guy who was the SOLE cause of the accident is dead and cannot be charged.They stated they were racing. i think they were telling the truth about that. As stated by someone before, they should have just said it was an accident on the way home. But, they told the truth and now because of their racing, Brandon is left to pay the price.He was having fun, sure. But, this isn't a deal where you play a gag on a buddy. You aren't pulling a joke on him. Brandon's actions were set to be possibly dangerous and could have led to possible risk of his own life and others around him. The other guy is at fault, too for sure. But, everyone needs to realize what the results of one's actions can lead to. If death and serious injury is a high possibility, you shouldn't do it without willing to pay for it...All good points. I would have to think long and hard if I were on the jury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Actually there was no set point in my example. I have done this just to watch the other person zooom off while I immediately let off the gas and laughed.Probably not a good thing to do but.....I've done this on intersections before roads that I KNOW are speed traps...I like getting out-of-towners busted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrillo Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 the reason is because criminal cases are judged guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt"and civil cases are judged "more guilty than not"different standards means different judgements can be made.Thats what I was looking for, thanks!It still sounds stupid to have two different standards. I guess you can't get charged with a paritial manslaughter though... so I guess it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOW Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I'm not sure how to feel about this.on one hand, brandon wasn't the one who lost control and wrecked... so i'm hesitant to think he should be prosecuted for ANY of the charges, he didn't assault anyone with his car, OR kill anyone, it was george who did those things...I'm pretty sure I'd vote "not guilty" on all of the charges pressed.maybe a reckless op, or public endangerment charge would be warranted...but george died doing something of his own free will, it's not like he was an innocent bystander crossing the street, or monica, that was hit just driving home or whatever..He knew the risks, he chose to participate, end of story. His wife should definitely be charged with insurance fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 All good points. I would have to think long and hard if I were on the jury.why i stated along time ago in this thread im glad im not on the jury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Not motherfucking guilty!!!!http://wbns.com/live/content/local/stories/2009/04/23/story_smith_verdict.html?sid=102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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