Brandon's Trial Started

[Casper]

Good for him. I have a feeling it's going to be his ass in a civil suit' date=' however.[/quote']

I really don't think so. I think George's wife and insurance company are fucked though.

[e-flores]

Nice!!! Glad to hear!!!

[balaormiga]

Not motherfucking guilty!!!!

http://wbns.com/live/content/local/stories/2009/04/23/story_smith_verdict.html?sid=102

I must say.. I had hoped it would go that way. Just didn't seem right any other way.

[balaormiga]

Depends... did it come out in court that they weren't racing? That would be optimal as the insurance company would be hard pressed to pass responsibility.

I'm glad for your friend and a little disappointed at the same time. I can't help but think about the Durban girl. Even if Brandon was sentenced to years in prison she'd still be the ONLY victim in this case. Now' date=' I believe justice was served for Brandon but not for Monica. A win and a loss, in my eyes.[/quote']

Yes- I agree. No matter what Monica could never have full justice. But in terms of punishment... what greater punishment could there be? The guy primarily responsible died.

[wrillo]

I must say.. I had hoped it would go that way. Just didn't seem right any other way.

momma always said if you aint got nothing nice to say, don't say it at all.. come on man, some consider this guy a friend.

I'm glad your friend didn't get slammed with all of those charges! Insurance fraud isn't anything to mess around with tho...

[RSVDon]

momma always said if you aint got nothing nice to say, don't say it at all.. come on man, some consider this guy a friend.

I'm glad your friend didn't get slammed with all of those charges! Insurance fraud isn't anything to mess around with tho...

I think he was agreeing that "not guilty" was the only way to go.

[Moto-Brian]

Depends... did it come out in court that they weren't racing? That would be optimal as the insurance company would be hard pressed to pass responsibility.

I'm glad for your friend and a little disappointed at the same time. I can't help but think about the Durban girl. Even if Brandon was sentenced to years in prison she'd still be the ONLY victim in this case. Now' date=' I believe justice was served for Brandon but not for Monica. A win and a loss, in my eyes.[/quote']

I agree with you. I really think the loser is the girl. Guy who died got off easy in my opinion...

The Brandon kid is getting cheered and applauded for "winning" this thing. Honestly, they were racing and I am really amazed he didn't get shit out of this... Again, it takes two to race and he was #2...

In civil court, he's probably fucked. All they need to do is show he was racing. Now, if what you asked is true where it was proven they were not (Don't know how they could have), he will probably get off and be back racing again in a year's time...

[Moto-Brian]

momma always said if you aint got nothing nice to say, don't say it at all.. come on man, some consider this guy a friend.

I'm glad your friend didn't get slammed with all of those charges! Insurance fraud isn't anything to mess around with tho...

Friend aside, guy raced with a guy that he KNEW was drunk. He was responsible to a degree. Look at it with non biased eyes and it should look different.

How this is any different than a guy who drives the getaway car for a robber who shot and killed a store clerk is beyond me...

[wrillo]

I think he was agreeing that "not guilty" was the only way to go.

maybe I'm just a retard and shouldn't try to read after midnight?

[magley64]

Friend aside, guy raced with a guy that he KNEW was drunk. He was responsible to a degree. Look at it with non biased eyes and it should look different.

How this is any different than a guy who drives the getaway car for a robber who shot and killed a store clerk is beyond me...

maybe it's not any different...seriously

Imagine a scenario where you were planning to rob a bank after hours.

You are the get-away driver. Your partner is to break-in steal the money and get out.

the night of the heist there is an unexpected arrival of a security guard, you didn't plan on the security guard, but your partner shoots him, and is shot and killed in the process

You had no intention of murdering anyone, you were stealing money from a bank, you planned on stealing money from a bank...

should you be charged with murder/attempted murder/manslaughter because your partner wasn't able to control himself or the situation?

I agree you should be charged with accessory to bank robbery, but murder was not in the plan...and you didn't have a hand in shooting the guard, or the guard shooting your friend.

These 2 did break the law, intended to break the law, but the party responsible for vehicular assault (and manslaughter of himself) is dead.

they both participated in public endangerment, and drag racing, so those charges should stick...but not manslaughter.

Edited April 24, 2009 by magley64

[RSVDon]

Guy who died got off easy in my opinion...

Did you really just say that...

I mean, the rest of your posts have valid points but Jesus! George is dead, that's the ultimate price to pay for your mistake.

[Chrome]

I would have to agree with lizard on that though. just look at what hell he would be going through. lawsuits, court hearings, and to live knowing that you perminatley fucked up someones life. that kind of stress would definatly get to someone over time. thats hard to deal with. so i agree with him 100%.

[wrillo]

No life is better than a miserable one? I don't think I would EVER agree with that statement

[magley64]

Did you really just say that...

I mean, the rest of your posts have valid points but Jesus! George is dead, that's the ultimate price to pay for your mistake.

sure, living with your mistake is difficult, but at least you're alive.

living a difficult life > death, no matter how you slice it.

Barring a few exceptions.

[Casper]

I agree with you. I really think the loser is the girl. Guy who died got off easy in my opinion...

The Brandon kid is getting cheered and applauded for "winning" this thing. Honestly, they were racing and I am really amazed he didn't get shit out of this... Again, it takes two to race and he was #2...

In civil court, he's probably fucked. All they need to do is show he was racing. Now, if what you asked is true where it was proven they were not (Don't know how they could have), he will probably get off and be back racing again in a year's time...

George definitely didn't "get off easy". He lost his life, leaving his family behind. That's just shitty.

I agree Brandon should've been charged with something. Had he only been charged with assault, it probably would've stuck. However, trying to blame him for George's death was idiotic. Had the judge dismissed the case like the defense asked, they could've gone back and charged him with just the assault. That would've been your justice for the girl involved. Instead, the judge refused to throw it out and it went to trial. Now they can't go after him for anything really. I agree Brandon was in the wrong, but there was no way he should've been charged for manslaughter and homicide.

[Moto-Brian]

George definitely didn't "get off easy". He lost his life, leaving his family behind. That's just shitty.

I agree Brandon should've been charged with something. Had he only been charged with assault, it probably would've stuck. However, trying to blame him for George's death was idiotic. Had the judge dismissed the case like the defense asked, they could've gone back and charged him with just the assault. That would've been your justice for the girl involved. Instead, the judge refused to throw it out and it went to trial. Now they can't go after him for anything really. I agree Brandon was in the wrong, but there was no way he should've been charged for manslaughter and homicide.

George doesn't have to live everyday like that girl does. He died. Sucks, but in the end, I'd say she has some serious shit she has to deal with EVERYDAY. He doesn't. He gambled and accepted the risk. He died doing what he knew was dangerous. She was driving fucking home and had her life ruined by two idiots racing.

Brandon is as much at fault in my opinion. Like I said, he knew the guy was drunk, he accepted the setting up of the race, he even started off and raced the guy who lost control DUE TO RACING and who got killed and injured an INNOCENT bystander.

Brandon's your friend, I understand that. I think he's your friend, I guess... From what you are saying, George is a buddy, too. Do you condone what they did? Do you think it is fair what the woman has to go through everyday now?

If you answer those HONESTLY, you'll understand that Brandon has a stake in this and that George got off easy.

George's family didn't, the girl didn't, and even to a degree, Brandon didn't. I would say Brandon is pretty damn lucky and really ought to thank everyone for being so easy on him... I hope he gets his ass used off in the civil trial.

Again, do you understand that they were racing? They were doing something ILLEGAL. Same as if they were robbing a store. Same as if they were committing arson. Same as if they were shooting at cars on the freeway. All these things can lead to someone getting killed. Had he been with the robber, the arsonist, and the freeway shooter in my examples, he would have been an accomplice. Maybe that's why he got off on manslaughter... But, he should pay for what he did and I think the civil trial will show that.

But, he'll get off easy there, too. He'll file for Bankruptcy and not pay a dime or hold it up in court for so long it never gets settled 100%.

All the while that poor girl gets to go to rehab, gets to remember what life she USED to have and how it is all changed and will never be close to what she had before.

I don't care who it was. My heart goes out to the girl and her family. That's a terrible thing that happened to her. All because fun turned to shit in an instant. But, as usual, nobody gets to pay for what they did.

[Casper]

George doesn't have to live everyday like that girl does. He died. Sucks, but in the end, I'd say she has some serious shit she has to deal with EVERYDAY. He doesn't. He gambled and accepted the risk. He died doing what he knew was dangerous. She was driving fucking home and had her life ruined by two idiots racing.

Brandon is as much at fault in my opinion. Like I said, he knew the guy was drunk, he accepted the setting up of the race, he even started off and raced the guy who lost control DUE TO RACING and who got killed and injured an INNOCENT bystander.

Brandon's your friend, I understand that. I think he's your friend, I guess... From what you are saying, George is a buddy, too. Do you condone what they did? Do you think it is fair what the woman has to go through everyday now?

If you answer those HONESTLY, you'll understand that Brandon has a stake in this and that George got off easy.

George's family didn't, the girl didn't, and even to a degree, Brandon didn't. I would say Brandon is pretty damn lucky and really ought to thank everyone for being so easy on him... I hope he gets his ass used off in the civil trial.

Again, do you understand that they were racing? They were doing something ILLEGAL. Same as if they were robbing a store. Same as if they were committing arson. Same as if they were shooting at cars on the freeway. All these things can lead to someone getting killed. Had he been with the robber, the arsonist, and the freeway shooter in my examples, he would have been an accomplice. Maybe that's why he got off on manslaughter... But, he should pay for what he did and I think the civil trial will show that.

But, he'll get off easy there, too. He'll file for Bankruptcy and not pay a dime or hold it up in court for so long it never gets settled 100%.

All the while that poor girl gets to go to rehab, gets to remember what life she USED to have and how it is all changed and will never be close to what she had before.

I don't care who it was. My heart goes out to the girl and her family. That's a terrible thing that happened to her. All because fun turned to shit in an instant. But, as usual, nobody gets to pay for what they did.

Did you even read what I posted???????

[Moto-Brian]

Did you really just say that...

I mean, the rest of your posts have valid points but Jesus! George is dead, that's the ultimate price to pay for your mistake.

Look, it's tragic he died. It really is. I NEVER stated I am glad he's dead, that he should have died, etc. But, as Chrome mentioned, he got off easy. He doesn't have to use a walker to get around. He doesn't have any brain damage and not be able to function like he used to be able to. He doesn't have to lose a lot of things he used to be able to have in an effort to get around after a crash and having brain damage. He doesn't have to burden his family to take care of him. He doesn't have to worry about bills to pay for the treatments and dealing with the insurance companies.

All that is something this poor girl gets to deal with. George died and nobody pays for what happened. That's getting off easy. Don't sit there and read it that I think he deserved to die. Nobody did.

[Moto-Brian]

Did you even read what I posted???????

Yes...

You said "George definitely didn't "get off easy". He lost his life, leaving his family behind. That's just shitty."

You are saying he didn't get off easy... I didn't mis-read that.

You said "However, trying to blame him for George's death was idiotic."

You are calling my thought process "idiotic" yet you don't seem to see that Brandon was also racing and the ACT of them racing resulted in a death and a innocent bystander screwed up for life.

You said "Had the judge dismissed the case like the defense asked, they could've gone back and charged him with just the assault. That would've been your justice for the girl involved."

No, justice would have been to see this Brandon kid get some sort of punsihment. Assault??? Are you serious? You accept assualt but not manslaughter. It's ok to say he assaulted the guy, but it's not ok to say he was responsible to a degree with George's death? They FUCKING PLANNED THE RACE KNOWING THE GUY WAS DRUNK. THEY PLANNED IT.

You said "Now they can't go after him for anything really."

And there lies the mess. It's amazing that the guy gets to walk out and not have to pay for anything he was a part of. Great system we have, huh?

[wrillo]

No life is better than a miserable one? I don't think I would EVER agree with that statement

I'll quote myself, to put it out there again.

Think about how George would feel if he was around. I'm sure he would do everything he could to help the poor girl. I'm sure if there is some type of afterlife, that he is deeply sorry he can't help her and turning over in his grave every day about it. Read: I'm sure he WANTS to be alive

Also racing isn't the same as all those other crimes. There isn't even a thread of truth in that, or all crimes would have the same punishment & there wouldn't be several classes of felonies

[magley64]

You said "Now they can't go after him for anything really."

And there lies the mess. It's amazing that the guy gets to walk out and not have to pay for anything he was a part of. Great system we have, huh?

okay, how does him sitting in prison benefit her at all? the criminal case was to nobodies benefit.

Edited April 24, 2009 by magley64

[Moto-Brian]

I'll quote myself, to put it out there again.

Think about how George would feel if he was around. I'm sure he would do everything he could to help the poor girl. I'm sure if there is some type of afterlife, that he is deeply sorry he can't help her and turning over in his grave every day about it. Read: I'm sure he WANTS to be alive

Also racing isn't the same as all those other crimes. There isn't even a thread of truth in that, or all crimes would have the same punishment & there wouldn't be several classes of felonies

How do you even know what George would do? ANY human being that had this happen would be remorseful - especially if he was still here and facing some serious charges and a civil suit. Doubt he'd be doing cart wheels.

Those crimes are situations that show someone gets killed, but you weren't the one pulling the trigger. You were an accomplice.

If you are breaking the speed limit let's say, you don't get charged as if you robbed a corner deli. If you are speeding and doing something illegal like racing and someone gets killed, you would get charged with manslaughter. Not premeditated, but still, you'd get manslaughter charges thrown at you.

Same with the deli robbery. If you are holding the guy up and he grabs a gun and you react and shoot him and he dies, you get manslaughter.

The result is the same. Someone died while committing an illegal act. Period.

You are right they aren't the same crimes. But, the death and the fact that the girl was severely injured brings in another element that steps it up from just speeding and reckless op.

If George had the choice to be dead or alive, he'd choose alive. However, there were adults that planned out an activity that wasn't like TPing your neighbor's house. They were planning an act that was dangerous and a VERY high risk of injury or death. That is what is involved in racing. He chose to take the risk. If you could talk to him, I am sure he thinks that was a bad decision. But, he chose it. He died. It's pretty black and white.

If I die tomorrow at the track, I chose to accept the risk of high performance riding/racing. I am fine with the fact that I may not come home. Have been for over 14 years and whenever that faceshield went down, I forgot 100% about my wife and son. Sounds pretty terrible, but that was how I had to do it.

But, I made a choice. I am making one tomorrow and Sunday.

[Moto-Brian]

okay, how does him sitting in prizon benefit her at all? the criminal case was to nobodies benefit.

Look, justice is something that is payment for what you did wrong. It will NEVER help that girl. It will never help the pain she has everyday. It will never help the family.

But, understand something (I think unless you experience this, you won't understand), if the people responsible are sent to jail and have their lives ruined, it is something that you look at as "payment" for what they did to your friend or family member.

Brandon doesn't benefit, but he sure as hell will have some issues in his life from here on out had he been charged with something that would stick with him forever. When he goes to get a job, etc. Is it justice? Not really, but it is something of comfort knowing he paid for his part in what they did to the girl and her family.

[Casper]

Yes...

You said "George definitely didn't "get off easy". He lost his life, leaving his family behind. That's just shitty."

You are saying he didn't get off easy... I didn't mis-read that.

You said "However, trying to blame him for George's death was idiotic."

You are calling my thought process "idiotic" yet you don't seem to see that Brandon was also racing and the ACT of them racing resulted in a death and a innocent bystander screwed up for life.

You said "Had the judge dismissed the case like the defense asked, they could've gone back and charged him with just the assault. That would've been your justice for the girl involved."

No, justice would have been to see this Brandon kid get some sort of punsihment. Assault??? Are you serious? You accept assualt but not manslaughter. It's ok to say he assaulted the guy, but it's not ok to say he was responsible to a degree with George's death? They FUCKING PLANNED THE RACE KNOWING THE GUY WAS DRUNK. THEY PLANNED IT.

You said "Now they can't go after him for anything really."

And there lies the mess. It's amazing that the guy gets to walk out and not have to pay for anything he was a part of. Great system we have, huh?

You're going on about justice for the girl, but wanting Brandon to pay for George's death???? You're not making much sense. How would Brandon being in jail for George's death be any justice whatsoever for the girl George hit???

Like I said, I think Brandon should've been charged with assault only. However, the main culprit here is George, who's dead. Next best thing, his insurance company. She should be suing the shit out of George's insurance.

[Casper]

Look, justice is something that is payment for what you did wrong. It will NEVER help that girl. It will never help the pain she has everyday. It will never help the family.

But, understand something (I think unless you experience this, you won't understand), if the people responsible are sent to jail and have their lives ruined, it is something that you look at as "payment" for what they did to your friend or family member.

Brandon doesn't benefit, but he sure as hell will have some issues in his life from here on out had he been charged with something that would stick with him forever. When he goes to get a job, etc. Is it justice? Not really, but it is something of comfort knowing he paid for his part in what they did to the girl and her family.

So charging Brandon for George's death would give her comfort?