Dr. Pomade Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Oh shit... L@@K, It's Jones, reading this thread: http://i.imgur.com/VOga1.gif I bet Jones won't disagree with me all that much, if at all. I don't think Jones bought a GTR because he thinks it's the most aesthetically pleasing car at that price point. I think he bought it because he knows it's the best performing car at that price point with a ton of potential for almost exponentially greater performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I bet Jones won't disagree with me all that much, if at all. I don't think Jones bought a GTR because he thinks it's the most aesthetically pleasing car at that price point. I think he bought it because he knows it's the best performing car at that price point with a ton of potential for almost exponentially greater performance. For real. He's an Audi guy, there's no way he puts looks over performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I bet Jones won't disagree with me all that much, if at all. I don't think Jones bought a GTR because he thinks it's the most aesthetically pleasing car at that price point. I think he bought it because he knows it's the best performing car at that price point with a ton of potential for almost exponentially greater performance. Spot on as usual. The GTR doesn't have the same cachet or visual recognition of a 911, especially to those of "age". I've grown accustomed to being asked "what is this" several times on a weekend, only to watch their faces become more confused when they hear the first word is Nissan. I imagine most don't buy a GTR for curb appeal, you buy it for the qualities that become apparent when you drive the car hard. It's not a luxurious, quiet GT car, it's a purpose built machine that does things that challenge your understanding of physics at times. For me, it came down to 997.1 Turbo Or GTR. Ultimately for what I'd use it for, the GTR was the better choice for a car that will be modded, thrashed, and not taken on golf outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 This car looks ready to go. http://www.carsforsale.com/used_cars_for_sale/2001_porsche_911_213806771_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 This car looks ready to go. http://www.carsforsale.com/used_cars_for_sale/2001_porsche_911_213806771_2 Did you see the interior or are you blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 How can these cars and motors handle high mileage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Did you see the interior or are you blind? + automatic is no go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssFo Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Wow that interior is terrible. Auto sports car LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pomade Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Yes: - white - coupe - manual - moderate mileage No: - convertible - tips/autos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Did you see the interior or are you blind? I guess a little of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dover Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I've debated both as well. (Specifically, about two years ago.) For me, this is how it shook out: - the GTR > Porsche when it comes to brute performance, especially when you consider bang for buck - the Porsche > GTR when it comes to aesthetics IMHO, the GTR is not an amazing looking car. Quite frankly, if I didn't produce godzillion tons of HP, etc., I'd think it would look kind of silly. It's big, it's bulky, the lines don't flow well for me, and there aren't many angles of it that look good to me. Of course, the only angle you usually see of them is from the rear from a distance, so that helps to compensate for the lack of aesthetics to a certain extent. I can see myself taking the wife out to dinner in a Porsche. I can't see taking her out to dinner in a GTR. I get there is a lot more to a car than where you can valet it and how your wife looks in it. But, to me, that example helps to illustrate the subtle, but perhaps important, differences I see in the two. One is more glamorous and classy, the other is more brute strength and parking lot domination. Picking a 997TT over a GTR or a vice versa is a great dilemma to have. It's like deciding on having sex with two supermodels or three supermodels. Completely understand, I think you'll genuinely enjoy the car. I'd personally go with the 997.1 (with some GT3 cup seats) and do a Switzer package on it. They respond very well to minimal mods, and Switzer has them dialed in for sure. My buddy Ed Collazo over at Auto Assets deals with a lot of Porsches and I'm sure he or one of his techs could be a wealth of knowledge for you. (I know Andy can vouch for them) Aside from that, I thought if one wanted to go fast you'd need an LS1, cam, and spray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Aside from that, I thought if one wanted to go fast you'd need an LS1, cam, and spray? Time changes all things. :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Aside from that, I thought if one wanted to go fast you'd need an LS1, cam, and spray? For some reason I think the good Dr. is done with LS engines and spray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 For some reason I think the good Dr. is done with LS engines and spray. By spray did you mean fuel spray? :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRTurbo04 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 By spray did you mean fuel spray? :gabe: Too soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 By spray did you mean fuel spray? :gabe: Certainly not spray tans or hair spray... -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdk 4219 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm thinking of getting a 996TT. My goals are, I think, fairly modest: I'd like the car to make in the area of 550 awhp, but retain streetability. Something that is respectability quick on the street, but not going to fume out my wife when I'm taking her to dinner. Am I able to accomplish that with minimal modifications? This will be mostly a street car. Meaning, I don't see myself tracking it all that often. If I do, then it will be few and far between. Rather, this is just going to be a fun weekend/summer car. In doing research, I see that there's an x50 upgrade package for the 996TT. Is it worth it to pursue cars with this upgrade, or would it be easier/cheaper to just upgrade everything on a standard 996TT? Also, in doing research, I came across some interesting discussion on a forum (rennlist, I believe), in which some of the members were advocating for purchasing a 996TT with moderate (or more) miles than one with few (or less) miles. The reasoning (if I understood them correctly) is that the cars with few miles on them haven't had a chance to "fail," whereas the others with more miles - like 30k to 50k - have had that opportunity. So, they say, if you aren't a car collector, then the prudent move is to go with the engine that has proven reliability. I like that reasoning, insofar as it translates into money saved for me. So, do I care how many miles the car has? My understanding that the platform is great and generally reliable, but that's about the extent of my understanding. I'm not opposed to 997TT. I just figured it will be a whole lot easier/cheaper to get into a 996TT. I'm not concerned about bells and whistles (e.g., navigation, back up cameras, etc.) on this car. Because racecar. However, if there's a compelling reason why I should be looking at the 997TT (e.g., major engine advances, significant performance upgrades), then let me know. Lastly, please let me know if you come across any white 996 TT coupes. I've been searching for the past few days and have come across like one for sale. However, I usually suck at finding things on the internet and I'm always impressed at how good you guys are at finding relevant cars in the far reaches of the interwebz. So, if you find one, then let me know. First of all let's get to the AWD drive part of the car. 5% to the front and the rest to the rear! this is when it is new when it is worn consider it RWD. Coolant pipe failure is not a probability, it will happen, and is rather costly, not to mention ass backward engineering. The x50 cars are starting to have timing chain failure( not on a huge scale) but keep in mind there are not that many x50 cars in the world. iMS failures are happening on these engines and these are engine destroyers. I did my due diligence and researched this car before I got one, since e Cayenne Turbo I have has been less than impressive with failed coolant pipes, starter, driveshaft, fuel tank sender, and uses over 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles (normal from other owners) with 82,000 miles and full service records. Everyone said that the 996tt was "bullet proof" and regular maintenance was all that was needed. A $4000 to $5000 coolant pipe replacement at 80,000 miles because the epoxy that Porsche glued the fittings in with(all 8 of them) fails and the fittings pop out, doesn't seem to be regular maintenance to me. Bullet proof it is not. Maybe I have too high of an expectation from autos that originally were North of $220,000 but making coolant tubes out of composite plastic and glueing coolant tubes in place , is not good engineering at all, very disappointing at best. 996tt need clutch slaves, alternators, maf's coolant expansion tanks, spark plugs, coil packs, front and rear main seals, fuel senders, water pumps, rear tires maybe 10,00 miles, as well as the above mentioned parts. All of these are from normal driving. Buy the GTR I have a feeling that the Japanese build it better. If mine disappoints me it will get 2 more cylinders and some larger turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 iMS failures are happening on these engines and these are engine destroyers. Since when do the Metzger motors (in the 996 Turbo & 997.1 Turbo) have IMS failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdk 4219 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 We don't just build GT3 engines here... but this is seriously the stuff that keeps James awake at night! If any of you guys also have either a 996 or 997 GT1 based Twin Turbo and are experiencing more engine vibration/noise than you'd think was normal we've unfortunately seen our fair share of this nasty symptom. It's not the same IMS failure you here/read about on the M96/97 engines (that is more common too). Please do some research and search 996tt ims failure. Not as common as non turbo units, but failure rate is there. Considering the low production total of the turbo cars figure it at a high rate. Some people have had great luck with these, but some have also had great luck with Chrysler intrepid 2.7 engines as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 We don't just build GT3 engines here... but this is seriously the stuff that keeps James awake at night! If any of you guys also have either a 996 or 997 GT1 based Twin Turbo and are experiencing more engine vibration/noise than you'd think was normal we've unfortunately seen our fair share of this nasty symptom. It's not the same IMS failure you here/read about on the M96/97 engines (that is more common too). Please do some research and search 996tt ims failure. Not as common as non turbo units, but failure rate is there. Considering the low production total of the turbo cars figure it at a high rate. Some people have had great luck with these, but some have also had great luck with Chrysler intrepid 2.7 engines as well. Sure, but on the whole, they are a reliable "supercar".. If you are buying a used $120k-150K car you are assuming some responsibility that if something goes, it's not going to be cheap, and it's not going to be easy. I think it's a pretty damn safe bet overall, that or we can all go buy a Honda Civic for weekend cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdk 4219 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Since when do the Metzger motors (in the 996 Turbo & 997.1 Turbo) have IMS failure? I believe it is Mezger , and the failures that these cars have are elementary engineering failures, not ground breaking invention failures. I don't expect to have failures like these ones from a high end car, I expect clutch wear, oil changes, maybe some transmission problems from abuse, but not coolant tubes that are glued not pressed in , plastic coolant tubes that fall apart, and loud as hell IMS gears that sound like they are coming apart. The saying that you get what you pay for does not apply to automobiles. Some make better cars than others. When you buy a car like this , buy it with a warranty ,it will be needed These are disappointing, but extremely time consuming and expensive needless repairs, as the technology out there will allow for pressed in coolant tubes and other parts that fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Chris, don't forget variocam tappet failures, variocam sealing rings, the stupid rubber hose that splits on the fuel pump and the fact that the main coolant hoses on either side of the engine bay are likely to split right down the middle if they are more than 5 years old. Let's put this in perspective though. We are talking about a series of cars that are 9-13 years old now. Not only that but high performance cars with every day practicality leading to them being driven much more than competitors in this same segment. As you stated these were expensive cars new and as such can be expensive to fix for someone who can't perform the work themselves. I think the most important thing to point out is that while these cars are a "relative bargain" today that comes with a certain risk. You could pick up a 50k mile TT and put 3-5k miles a year on it and never have issues BUT you need to be able and prepared to stroke a check if the thing breaks. Now the coolant pipe failures are absolutely a shitty deal, one which Porsche refuses to recognize as an issue. There are options to minimize these failures. You can pin 6 of the 8 fittings with the motor in the car to minimize risk. Nothing you can do about the two under the oil cooler with the motor still in the car. Shop rate to pull motor, weld the fittings and put everything back is closer to $2-2.5k. It's all labor though. I did the whole job in my garage, without a lift for < $500. It sucked but needed to be done because I didn't want it failing on the track. Tinman here on the board has welded 3-4 sets now for myself and my track friends. Find me a 10+ year old car that doesn't possibly need oil seals, coil packs, plugs or an alternator here and there no matter what it is. Small note on the alternator you can rebuild yourself for like $75 if you are savy and do the work yourself. IMS - shitty deal I don't have to worry about with my GT3. At least on the turbo they will will make noise before it becomes deadly to the motor. You loose one in an M96 engine car and it's immediately catastrophic. Seems most cases reported have been on high mileage cars or cars with light flywheel. I too have seen the few chain failures recently. Still think these are pretty rare. Crappy deal is if you don't catch it quickly enough it will wrap around the IMS and ruin the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Since when do the Metzger motors (in the 996 Turbo & 997.1 Turbo) have IMS failure? Turbo has a 2 piece IMS. The key on the shaft has seen more and more failures as the cars age. Design was changed in '04 but key remains and is still the weak point. It will get noisy before it completely fails. There are good ways to test while it's noisy and before it fails if you suspect it's an issue. M96 cars the bearing on the shaft fails and shit hits the fan immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudiOn19s Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 The plastic coolant pipes on the 04-06 cayenne was shit design too. Idk what they were thinking. Thankfully they fixed that in '08. Again the plastic pipes were a known issue early on and cheap to fix as preventative measure. If you wait for them to fail they will ruin the starter when they leak on them 2 piece cardan (drive) shaft was in every cayenne. Those bearings just wear out as early as 60k miles. You can now buy the bearing itself cheap to fix vs early on you had to buy the whole new shaft to resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Andy FTW. Point being you aren't going to buy a used 10+ year old $100k+ car that can be guaranteed to go the next 50K without any issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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