Doc1647545523 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Reaching a bit, aren't we? Honestly, your question is a fair one. I've spent some time thinking about compare/contrast the riot with the Boston Tea Party. I think it would be a rich discussion. Think of the actual issues at stake, review the history, try to put aside your preconceptions, then come to your own conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Nah, Doc ain't reaching. He was there for the Boston Tea Party. He should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Honestly, your question is a fair one. I've spent some time thinking about compare/contrast the riot with the Boston Tea Party. I think it would be a rich discussion. Think of the actual issues at stake, review the history, try to put aside your preconceptions, then come to your own conclusions. I appreciate what you are trying to say. I do however; have trouble drawing a parallel between the two. One was a group of colonists who were being unjustly taxed, and revolted. The other group believes (before due process even occurred to indicate otherwise) that justice would not be served in a case they feel passionately about. In revolt their burned down businesses they use and frequent, and helped themselves to goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 This is CR, so I shall add the prerequisite ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ smiley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc1647545523 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I appreciate what you are trying to say. I do however; have trouble drawing a parallel between the two. One was a group of colonists who were being unjustly taxed, and revolted. The other group believes (before due process even occurred to indicate otherwise) that justice would not be served in a case they feel passionately about. In revolt their burned down businesses they use and frequent, and helped themselves to goods. You say unjustly taxed. That was the point of view of the colonials, but not the view of their government, the English citizens who owned the import companies, or the majority of English citizens in general. The colonials felt that they shouldn't have to pay taxes unless they had elected representatives in the government. Although that is a point of view, I don't believe you can say it is inherently unjust. It happens all the time in our society now and we don't think twice about it. Where was the due process for the owners of the tea? What court ever determined that the tax was unjust? And in case you've forgotten, the tea thrown into the harbor was the tea that was being brought to America for the colonists to buy. It was tea destined for them. They screwed it up for themselves by doing what they did. I wouldn't be surprised if a case or two made it into some of the colonists homes instead of the harbor. One group was upset on paying tax on tea and other commodities without having a say in the tax law. They stormed out of a meeting, some dressed at Mohawks (think about that for a moment), rioted, and destroyed business inventory. They were passionate about their cause and deliberate in their actions. We call them heroes and patriots. Hurrah for "our side." Another group felt that they were increasingly being discriminated against because of their race, profiled by police, more likely to be improperly detained, arrested, shot, and killed. When a young black man was shot and killed and there was rumor that it was unjustified, some in the community took the law into their own hands and rioted, destroying and looting in their neighborhood. They were passionate about their cause and deliberate in their actions. We call them criminals, a lawless mob. We label them that way because they are the "other," they're not in our tribe. Shame on them. They're dumb. The big issues? Taxation without representation. Racial profiling and unequal application of the law. Which is the bigger issue for you: tax on your tea or your kid killed by police because he was black? It's all your point of view. When your side wins, you get to write the history your way. Your terrorists transform into patriots. TLDR: When a class of citizens of a country feel that they have to use violence to get their grievances redressed, their government has failed them. To the extent that we are a democracy, that means that we citizens have failed them, too. As long as good people are committed to strive for justice and equality, the process will gradually take us there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 You say unjustly taxed. That was the point of view of the colonials, but not the view of their government, the English citizens who owned the import companies, or the majority of English citizens in general. The colonials felt that they shouldn't have to pay taxes unless they had elected representatives in the government. Although that is a point of view, I don't believe you can say it is inherently unjust. It happens all the time in our society now and we don't think twice about it. Where was the due process for the owners of the tea? What court ever determined that the tax was unjust? And in case you've forgotten, the tea thrown into the harbor was the tea that was being brought to America for the colonists to buy. It was tea destined for them. They screwed it up for themselves by doing what they did. I wouldn't be surprised if a case or two made it into some of the colonists homes instead of the harbor. One group was upset on paying tax on tea and other commodities without having a say in the tax law. They stormed out of a meeting, some dressed at Mohawks (think about that for a moment), rioted, and destroyed business inventory. They were passionate about their cause and deliberate in their actions. We call them heroes and patriots. Hurrah for "our side." Another group felt that they were increasingly being discriminated against because of their race, profiled by police, more likely to be improperly detained, arrested, shot, and killed. When a young black man was shot and killed and there was rumor that it was unjustified, some in the community took the law into their own hands and rioted, destroying and looting in their neighborhood. They were passionate about their cause and deliberate in their actions. We call them criminals, a lawless mob. We label them that way because they are the "other," they're not in our tribe. Shame on them. They're dumb. The big issues? Taxation without representation. Racial profiling and unequal application of the law. Which is the bigger issue for you: tax on your tea or your kid killed by police because he was black? It's all your point of view. When your side wins, you get to write the history your way. Your terrorists transform into patriots. TLDR: When a class of citizens of a country feel that they have to use violence to get their grievances redressed, their government has failed them. To the extent that we are a democracy, that means that we citizens have failed them, too. As long as good people are committed to strive for justice and equality, the process will gradually take us there. Doc, connecting dots you didn't think could be connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I'll have 3 trayvons please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 You say unjustly taxed. That was the point of view of the colonials, but not the view of their government, the English citizens who owned the import companies, or the majority of English citizens in general. The colonials felt that they shouldn't have to pay taxes unless they had elected representatives in the government. Although that is a point of view, I don't believe you can say it is inherently unjust. It happens all the time in our society now and we don't think twice about it. Where was the due process for the owners of the tea? What court ever determined that the tax was unjust? And in case you've forgotten, the tea thrown into the harbor was the tea that was being brought to America for the colonists to buy. It was tea destined for them. They screwed it up for themselves by doing what they did. I wouldn't be surprised if a case or two made it into some of the colonists homes instead of the harbor. One group was upset on paying tax on tea and other commodities without having a say in the tax law. They stormed out of a meeting, some dressed at Mohawks (think about that for a moment), rioted, and destroyed business inventory. They were passionate about their cause and deliberate in their actions. We call them heroes and patriots. Hurrah for "our side." Another group felt that they were increasingly being discriminated against because of their race, profiled by police, more likely to be improperly detained, arrested, shot, and killed. When a young black man was shot and killed and there was rumor that it was unjustified, some in the community took the law into their own hands and rioted, destroying and looting in their neighborhood. They were passionate about their cause and deliberate in their actions. We call them criminals, a lawless mob. We label them that way because they are the "other," they're not in our tribe. Shame on them. They're dumb. The big issues? Taxation without representation. Racial profiling and unequal application of the law. Which is the bigger issue for you: tax on your tea or your kid killed by police because he was black? It's all your point of view. When your side wins, you get to write the history your way. Your terrorists transform into patriots. TLDR: When a class of citizens of a country feel that they have to use violence to get their grievances redressed, their government has failed them. To the extent that we are a democracy, that means that we citizens have failed them, too. As long as good people are committed to strive for justice and equality, the process will gradually take us there. Doc what you say here makes 100% sense and cannot be disputed, however I feel there is one major difference between the two: purity. Depending on what you believe in the media there is a serious lack of purity in these protests. You have people stoking the fires for their own gain, they could care less about the true issue, they just want to be in the spotlight for their own gain. When you have people like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton saying some totally stupid and off base things just to rile people up, get their name out there, and make some $$$ off the situation, that is where purity goes out the window. Its 2014, there has to be a better way to fix a situation than to riot and torch the town. People get all weird and crazy when you throw race and race relations into things. It drags out of the dark the fact that humans are really good at hating other humans for some of the dumbest reasons. As long as we celebrate stupidity in this country masked as freedom there will always be hate. TLDR: People suck and will do whatever they need to do to put themselves above the cause to get what they want and Doc is smarter than all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc1647545523 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 That's kind of you to say. I'm definitely not smarter, I just lived through more of this. I don't get on my soapbox to try to "win" this argument by convincing people of my view; rather, my goal is to get people to think about the issue of inequality more deeply than perhaps they have. It's an important issue of our times. You're probably right in what you've said above. But, is it possible that the purity of which you speak only appears to be greater in the struggle in the 1770's because history has whitewashed it to be that way? To put it another way, do you think there might have been patriots in it for their own gain, or to be in the spotlight, we just don't know about them because of the way history was written? We are quick to see the flaws of the Other, but quick to forget the flaws in our own tribe. As long as we celebrate stupidity in this country masked as freedom there will always be hate. Well, there's going to be hate either way. The downside of freedom is that people who disagree with us get to talk. I think we call them stupid because they disagree with us. I've learned a lot of things from people I formerly thought of as "stupid." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 ids habbeding!!! https://twitter.com/PzFeed/status/535865305323827200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace1647545504 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 The thug got what he deserved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 CNN claiming verdict later today. http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/justice/ferguson-grand-jury/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKED TIME TO RIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 "Physical evidence remains constant" "some witnesses admitted they did not see the shooting" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstmg8 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Amazing, almost like everything on social media isn't fact! Sorry, didn't mean to bring anyone's world crashing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace1647545504 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 No the witnesses lied..I find it hard to believe..gosh I have the look of amazment mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 The DA is pretty much throat fucking all the BS that has been spread by the media and interested parties about this mess and dropping truth bombs from high altitude. Can't argue the facts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 of course you can you won't hear the facts when you're running in the streets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky31186 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think the "witnesses" who claimed lies should face charges. Those who lied about how many times he was shot in the back to make the officers look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurkvinny Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Obvious decision is obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectragod Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKED TIME TO RIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Free Tv's n sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRD2BDF Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 The DA is pretty much throat fucking all the BS that has been spread by the media and interested parties about this mess and dropping truth bombs from high altitude. Can't argue the facts... Serious question: it might be a Deaf thing but I do not understand this. Could you clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Serious question: it might be a Deaf thing but I do not understand this. Could you clarify? I'm not sure what the issue is, if your watching the coverage and can think for yourself it should be obvious. And now they have Nancy Grace on spewing her vomit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/A9bB93Ql.jpg OH OH OH O-REILLLYYYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Its all about justice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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