Gentle giant

[Diamonds]

Shoot to wound isn't something most cops think of when neutralizing a lethal threat. Shoot to kill, end the conflict. Black, white... Doesn't matter. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes... Where's hrs chris rock video about how to be around police officers when you need it?

[Diamonds]

In other news... A black unarmed man was shot and killed by a white police officer... (Make me sick of that bullshit victimization propaganda).

[kirks5oh]

Anytime you punch a police officer in the face while he is sitting in his police car, you can expect to get shot and killed. Doesn't matter what started the altercation, or what happened otherwise. Black, white, Asian, or extraterrestrial--doesn't matter. At 18 years old, everyone knows that. Sounds like this kid had a criminal history, and should definitely know the repercussions of assaulting an officer.

 

What's more foolish is the morons who loot/destroy stuff. If you live in a community, and consider the community your home, why the fuck would you destroy your own home?

[HotCarl]

Shoot to wound isn't something most cops think of when neutralizing a lethal threat. Shoot to kill, end the conflict. Black, white... Doesn't matter. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes... Where's hrs chris rock video about how to be around police officers when you need it?

 

The term used is "shoot to stop". Its more "PC".

[HotCarl]

Here's my two problems with the Ferguson situation:

 

1.) Wilson and the prosecutor in this case seem to have presented Wilson's defenses to the grand jury. I have NEVER seen a prosecutor allow a defendant to present his defenses to a grand jury to avoid an indictment. Thus, I am forced to ask, why did this case merit an exception?

 

2.) Police officers aren't entitled to shoot a suspect to arrest him or merely because they see him commit a crime. In fact, at least in Ohio, a police officer's right to use deadly force in self-defense is more or less identical to any other citizen. So, ask yourself this question - if two men get in a fist fight with each other and one of them (who is later found not to have been significantly injured in the fracas) pulls a gun and shoots the unarmed man, is this not a problem?

 

I'm not sure where you read that the prosecutor allowed the defendant to present his defense? Grand Jury's do not usually hear testimony from an individual who may be charged but in this case Officer Wilson gave a 4 hour testimony. If I'm not mistaken he was not required to do so.

 

Also, the explanation Officer Wilson gave for shooting Wilson was because he posed a deadly threat to himself. Assault, attempting to take an officers firearm (in Wilsons testimony and backed by physical evidence), in addition to not obeying an officers commands and "charging" the officer (also backed by physical evidence) is what led Officer Wilson to shoot Michael Brown.

 

I have found that this is a pretty good article breaking down known facts and its from a reputable source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html?_r=0

[copperhead]

 

2.) Police officers aren't entitled to shoot a suspect to arrest him or merely because they see him commit a crime. In fact, at least in Ohio, a police officer's right to use deadly force in self-defense is more or less identical to any other citizen. So, ask yourself this question - if two men get in a fist fight with each other and one of them (who is later found not to have been significantly injured in the fracas) pulls a gun and shoots the unarmed man, is this not a problem?

 

I addressed this way earlier in the thread. Also, more people are killed by fists than any other single weapon in this country.

[greg1647545532]

I addressed this way earlier in the thread. Also, more people are killed by fists than any other single weapon in this country.

 

Uhh... this claim doesn't even pass the sniff test. Perhaps you're referring to this item that made the rounds a while ago, which claims that fists, hammers, and other blunt objects kill more people than rifles and shotguns. If that is indeed what you're referring to, then it's so far from fists > everything else that I'm sure I don't need to further explain.

 

eta: The source data is in that link. "Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc)" are responsible for 1/10th the number of deaths as handguns, for instance. 1/3 the number of deaths as knives. About 5% of the total deaths tracked by the FBI in 2012. And I would speculate that a fair number of those deaths are actually strangulation.

[Rustlestiltskin]

I addressed this way earlier in the thread. Also, more people are killed by fists than any other single weapon in this country.

 

Uhh... this claim doesn't even pass the sniff test. Perhaps you're referring to this item that made the rounds a while ago, which claims that fists, hammers, and other blunt objects kill more people than rifles and shotguns. If that is indeed what you're referring to, then it's so far from fists > everything else that I'm sure I don't need to further explain.

 

eta: The source data is in that link. "Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc)" are responsible for 1/10th the number of deaths as handguns, for instance. 1/3 the number of deaths as knives. About 5% of the total deaths tracked by the FBI in 2012. And I would speculate that a fair number of those deaths are actually strangulation.

 

Rekt

[acklac7]

The longer this shit plays out in the media/across the country the more agitated I get.

 

As others have said, im usually not on the side of the Police, but in this case I have to side with them. Dude was asking to get shot.

[acklac7]

And the other thing that bugs me is the fact there has been at least 3 white cops targeted and killed assassin-style (while on duty) by African Americans in the past 10 years (In St.Louis). Like literally these cops were sitting in their cars (or doing routine patrols) and dude(s) walk up and blows their head off. You haven't heard so much as a peep about any of these gruesome executions.

 

Both sides of my extended family have lived there (St.Louis) since forever, tons of underlying racial issues (on both sides) the media isn't touching.

Edited December 1, 2014 by acklac7

[spectragod]

I'll post this, it is not my own, and I will include a link, I think it hits all points.....

 

https://www.thepolicewifelifeblog.com/blog/just-a-cop-you-signed-up-for-that

 

What will it take to see the truth about law enforcement?

 

Our Law Enforcement Officers are being murdered as well as laying down their lives on duty every 58 hours. They are being shot while sitting at traffic lights. Executed in coffee shops and on their lunch breaks. Lured into ambushes and blown away while removing debris from the roadway, or while responding to an alarm call which was a set up. They are being killed in their own driveways, while off duty. They are being shot inside their own preceincts.

 

If celebrities or professional athletes were being targeted, shot and murdered to the tune of one dead every 58 hours there would be an instant demand for answers and protection. There would be a national cry to stop the violence before it impacted reality tv or sports center.

 

Regardless of proven statistics which tell us otherwise, our officers continue to get blamed as a whole for the actions of less than one percent*. Regardless of common sense in a world where we have all encountered a bad mechanic, doctor, plumber, we blame ALL cops for the few. Regardless of countless corrupt priests, teachers, crooked judges and lawyers, we do not condemn their entire profession, it's asinine to even consider. But with law enforcement, it is instant condemnation of all.

 

What exactly does an officer have to do for you to say his/her life has worth? What will it take for you to see the family waiting at home, praying theirs isn’t the next officer down? What will it take for the citizens of this country to say without them, who will make these sacrifices? Will you? Are you ready to be the target? Are you ready to line up your family and friends and know one of you will not come home every other day?

 

Our law enforcement officers are humans. When will it be enough to say something’s got to give? Even for those who hate the police….you’ll be the first to dial 911 when you need them and you will expect them to run lights blazing to your rescue, after all, you pay their salary.

 

What happens when they say, sorry, it’s too dangerous, you’re on your own. You hate us anyway, so do as you see fit. YOU stand in front of the bullet and protect your own family. You pry your mangled wife out of the wreckage you caused while drunk and give her CPR in front of your children. You stand in the pouring rain in the dead of night on an expressway and protect your own car from being hit by a semi until the tow truck gets there. You unlock your own car you left your keys in. You change your own tire when 8 months pregnant in 102 degree heat. You stand in front of your own abusive husband and his weapon and his fist and tell him to leave your home without harming you.

 

You get in your own car and race to stop someone who stole from you or hit your car a few miles back. You enter your neighborhood store and approach a masked man with a shotgun and reason with him not to kill you or those in the store. You go knock on the neighbor’s door who has a warrant, a house full of weapons and a sign on the door that says “don't tread on me”.

 

You watch for drunks out of control on the highway in an ice storm. You pray they don't kill you. You respond to suicide calls and cut teenagers from makeshift nooses in their garages or scrape their brain matter out of the soles of your boots. You tell their parents what happened while they were out socializing, again.

 

You walk into a house with no power in 105 degree heat containing the bodies of an entire family, including babies, now maggot infested and unidentifiable by anything other than the stench of rotten death. You walk up to cars who have nearly run you off the road only to be met with a gun in your face and no time to react.

 

You try and coax a brutally beaten and savagely raped teenager the same age as your own daughter out of the closet where she was left to die as she holds a knife to her own throat. You convince her tomorrow will be better.

 

You hate the police? You have no use for them? You think they’re worthless? Do it yourself. Worry about it all on your own. You surely can do better. You surely are wiser than those lazy, corrupt, doughnut eating fools you don’t give the time of day to when you hear they were gunned down while you went on about your business. Please, give them a rest and do it yourself.

 

You might want to hug your family and have your affairs in order before you head out, there's a very real chance you’ll never make it home, of course that’s no big deal….you signed up for that, and my tax dollars allow me to ignore your worth. After all, you're just a cop.

 

Oh, and you sure as hell better do it all perfectly, every single time. After all, you're not human anymore. You're just a cop. No one cares if you get it right...but you sure as hell better never get it wrong...because a good cop who did get it right will get his head blown off in an entirely different state if you screw up. That goes for you too, by the way. Better pray all 740,000 do right by that badge today, if not... It's all on you, because all cops are bad cops, right?

 

Melissa Littles, Founder

TPWL© 2014

The Police Wife Life, LLC

 

*statistics based on FBI full year crime data reports based on latest three full years ended in 2012.

[Gergwheel1647545492]

http://i.imgur.com/oDTpUK0.jpg

[RC K9]

http://i.imgur.com/oDTpUK0.jpg

 

I am wondering if that is a real pic, or if it was modified.

[Dafunk13]

Those Boston Tea Party folks should've read Atlas Shrugged too. lol. Christ.

[Gergwheel1647545492]

I am wondering if that is a real pic, or if it was modified.

 

i wondered the same thing since it was so shitty looking. Either way its still funny

[greg1647545532]

i wondered the same thing since it was so shitty looking. Either way its still funny

 

I didn't wonder at all, because it's groin-grabbingly fake. Wait, that doesn't make any sense. But anyone who seriously considered that that was a real pic for more than zero seconds needs to sit down and think long and hard about how they look at the world.

 

Original (that I found in about 5 seconds with a reverse google image search):

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/10/jailhouse_tales_an_protester_who_was_arrested_sunday_night_tells_about_her_experience.php

[Mace1647545504]

Barkley has the balls to say what I feel many blacks what to say but are afraid

 

http://news.yahoo.com/why-charles-barkley-supports-ferguson-grand-jury-decision-163736319.html

[Ben]

It just might get you killed if you go after the wrong person that has a gun and wants to defend themselves.

 

and for the love of fuck, do not....DO NOT punch a cop. Ever.

 

Anytime you punch a police officer in the face while he is sitting in his police car, you can expect to get shot and killed. Doesn't matter what started the altercation, or what happened otherwise.

 

These comments are exactly what I am talking about. If I punch you in the face, you are entitled to respond in kind (i.e. punch me in my face). If you escalate the confrontation by shooting me, you are committing a crime. Why do you all think it should be different just because the person doing the shooting happens to be wearing a badge? Is escalating a fight to the point of homicide only a crime if a non-police officer does it?

 

I'm not sure where you read that the prosecutor allowed the defendant to present his defense? Grand Jury's do not usually hear testimony from an individual who may be charged but in this case Officer Wilson gave a 4 hour testimony. If I'm not mistaken he was not required to do so.

 

Also, the explanation Officer Wilson gave for shooting Wilson was because he posed a deadly threat to himself. Assault, attempting to take an officers firearm (in Wilsons testimony and backed by physical evidence), in addition to not obeying an officers commands and "charging" the officer (also backed by physical evidence) is what led Officer Wilson to shoot Michael Brown.

 

By allowing Wilson to testify the prosecutor allowed Wilson the opportunity to present his defenses. So yes, this is exactly what I meant. And it is damn rare.

 

Yup, Wilson said Brown posed a deadly threat because if Brown didn't pose a deadly threat then Wilson committed homicide. What else was he going to say? But I have some trouble understanding how an unarmed teen (even a big teen) was a deadly threat to a trained cop (who was also damn big at 6'4" 215lbs.) who was in a car, and in possession of not just a gun, but a nightstick, a TASER, and pepper spray. I also don't know how you manage to determine that a teen (even a big teen) is a deadly threat before he causes you any injury. I also don't know how a person continues to be a threat from 30 feet away even after they've already been shot once such that you need to shoot them a few more times.

 

Brown was clearly looking for trouble. But police officers are, in theory, supposed to act with more restraint than the average citizen - not less. Yet this big trained officer didn't even want to try to escape in his car, or fight back, or use mace, or his TASER, or his nightstick before deciding he had no choice but to shoot a teenager? That, to me, doesn't make sense.

 

I addressed this way earlier in the thread. Also, more people are killed by fists than any other single weapon in this country.

 

Even if this were true (and I'm pretty sure it's not), I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment. (Before someone asks - I'm pretty sure it's not true because I have seen a lot of gun homicides but I have never, literally never, seen a case where *one* person beat another person to death with their bare hands. Admittedly, this is anecdotal, but it just seems like if this were as prevalent as you claim I'd see a lot more fist homicides and a lot fewer gun homicides).

[oh8sti]

These comments are exactly what I am talking about. If I punch you in the face, you are entitled to respond in kind (i.e. punch me in my face). If you escalate the confrontation by shooting me, you are committing a crime. Why do you all think it should be different just because the person doing the shooting happens to be wearing a badge? Is escalating a fight to the point of homicide only a crime if a non-police officer does it?

 

 

 

By allowing Wilson to testify the prosecutor allowed Wilson the opportunity to present his defenses. So yes, this is exactly what I meant. And it is damn rare.

 

Yup, Wilson said Brown posed a deadly threat because if Brown didn't pose a deadly threat then Wilson committed homicide. What else was he going to say? But I have some trouble understanding how an unarmed teen (even a big teen) was a deadly threat to a trained cop (who was also damn big at 6'4" 215lbs.) who was in a car, and in possession of not just a gun, but a nightstick, a TASER, and pepper spray. I also don't know how you manage to determine that a teen (even a big teen) is a deadly threat before he causes you any injury. I also don't know how a person continues to be a threat from 30 feet away even after they've already been shot once such that you need to shoot them a few more times.

 

Brown was clearly looking for trouble. But police officers are, in theory, supposed to act with more restraint than the average citizen - not less. Yet this big trained officer didn't even want to try to escape in his car, or fight back, or use mace, or his TASER, or his nightstick before deciding he had no choice but to shoot a teenager? That, to me, doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

Even if this were true (and I'm pretty sure it's not), I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment. (Before someone asks - I'm pretty sure it's not true because I have seen a lot of gun homicides but I have never, literally never, seen a case where *one* person beat another person to death with their bare hands. Admittedly, this is anecdotal, but it just seems like if this were as prevalent as you claim I'd see a lot more fist homicides and a lot fewer gun homicides).

 

 

a single punch in the face can and has killed people in the past. Ive seen guys get punched 1 time and then never fully recover. I will not put my trust in someone that just punched me in the face. I have no choice but to think if they are willing to punch me, they are willing to kill me. I have no idea if they will stop after 1, 2, 3 hits. I don't want to find out either. I don't think you do either.

 

If someone hits me and I'm armed and feel my life is in danger, I'm shooting.

 

Don't hit someone. ever. Specially in this era of everyone carrying guns.

 

got it?

[Ben]

I'll post this, it is not my own, and I will include a link, I think it hits all points.....

 

https://www.thepolicewifelifeblog.com/blog/just-a-cop-you-signed-up-for-that

 

 

No one is saying that law enforcement isn't important or that there aren't plenty of good police officers in the word. But I'm pretty sure there's a middle ground between the Hobbesian state of nature and militarizing one's police force while simultaneously treating those officers who misbehave as if they are above the law.

[Otis Nice]

...I have seen a lot of gun homicides but I have never, literally never, seen a case where *one* person beat another person to death with their bare hands...

 

Use Google.

 

Texas has a well-earned reputation as a gun friendly state with more firearms dealers–8,500 according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives–than any other state. But firearms only accounted for 65 percent of homicides for which additional data is available in Texas in 2012. That’s below other states like Illinois (86 percent), Michigan (76 percent) and California (69 percent). What gives? Maybe it’s what we like to call the Chuck Norris Effect: Texas leads the country in the number of people (101) killed by “hands, fists and feet.” California–which clocked some 700 more homicides than Texas–was second in that category with 87.

 

Hundreds die via punches and kicks every year.

 

One hitter quitter.

 

Hands and feet kill more people than blunt objects and assault rifles.

 

Not more than guns per say, but to say it never happens is incorrect.

[Ben]

 

a single punch in the face can and has killed people in the past. Ive seen guys get punched 1 time and then never fully recover. I will not put my trust in someone that just punched me in the face. I have no choice but to think if they are willing to punch me, they are willing to kill me. I have no idea if they will stop after 1, 2, 3 hits. I don't want to find out either. I don't think you do either.

 

If someone hits me and I'm armed and feel my life is in danger, I'm shooting.

 

Don't hit someone. ever. Specially in this era of everyone carrying guns.

 

got it?

 

I see what you mean and it is certainly good advice not to punch someone.

 

But no, I wouldn't say I've "got it" in the sense of agreement. Responding to a non-deadly threat with deadly force is illegal. True self-defense is always proportional to the threat.

 

However, you are correct to note that responding proportionally takes forbearance and courage. You have to be willing to run the risk that you may lose a fight or take a beating. It is easier to pull a gun and shoot. But easier doesn't equal right.

[Ben]

Use Google.

 

 

 

Hundreds die via punches and kicks every year.

 

One hitter quitter.

 

Hands and feet kill more people than blunt objects and assault rifles.

 

Not more than guns per say, but to say it never happens is incorrect.

 

When I said "seen" I meant "seen" professionally. Not read about on the news or on Google. I have no doubt you can probably find news stories about such things on the interweb (after all, what can't you find on the interweb). But, based on personal experience, I doubt it outstrips gun homicides.

[spectragod]

I see what you mean and it is certainly good advice not to punch someone.

 

But no, I wouldn't say I've "got it" in the sense of agreement. Responding to a non-deadly threat with deadly force is illegal. True self-defense is always proportional to the threat.

 

However, you are correct to note that responding proportionally takes forbearance and courage. You have to be willing to run the risk that you may lose a fight or take a beating. It is easier to pull a gun and shoot. But easier doesn't equal right.

 

Well, let's see,nowhere to begin........

 

When a police officer shows up anywhere, there is at least alway 1 gun there.... His. If he gets overpowered and it gets taken, what do you figure the outcome will be? Do you think that good boy that just attacked a police officer will just take it and leave? Maybe he will kill the cop, or kill some citizens, then you can Monday morning quarterback the incident telling us how he should have shot the attacker.

 

I can say this, I wasn't there, tasters and pepper spray aren't always effective, a person 21 feet away can traverse that distance in less time than it takes to pull your weapon from its holster and aim and fire.

 

Furthermore, most taser cartridges that street officers carry have 15 foot leads, brown was 21-30 feet away, explain how that would have worked.....osmosis?

 

True self defense,based on the injuries, where the first shots took place, and the fact of the starting distance or Browns returning for another fight, the use of force continum would tell one to resort to a firearm, just like the grand jury decided. My only observation is that Wilson fired quite a few rounds without hitting the target, I would suggest more firearms training.

 

Police officers aren't supposed to get in street fights and win or maybe lose, and take their beatings. This whole thing was cause and effect, Mike Brown chose to cause the robbery, he chose to walk in the street and challenge the police, he chose to hit a police officer who was sitting in his vehicle. The effect of those actions is he is now dead, but by Brown's choices, not Wilsons.

 

But really, you have an axe to grind with the police, I have no problem with that. Next time you need their help, call your local neighborhood thug, maybe he can help you better.

[Farkas]

I see what you mean and it is certainly good advice not to punch someone.

 

But no, I wouldn't say I've "got it" in the sense of agreement. Responding to a non-deadly threat with deadly force is illegal. True self-defense is always proportional to the threat.

 

However, you are correct to note that responding proportionally takes forbearance and courage. You have to be willing to run the risk that you may lose a fight or take a beating. It is easier to pull a gun and shoot. But easier doesn't equal right.

 

You were a little slow in school, weren't you? lol... c'mon Ben.